ZSL Whipsnade Zoo Whipsnade Zoo 2014 #1

[IanRRobinson]

Indeed! Think it was mentioned previously but I like it very much, except for erasing the American Bison out completely (sorry, couldn't resist!). The bus route's also been made more streamlined with fewer stops.

One of the Marwell threads mentioned that Nyala may be arriving soon-welcome news if true!

I have an awful feeling that the intention is to wait for the current American Bison to die and then abandon the paddock altogether. Why, I couldn't imagine, but then I can't imagine why the Park doesn't have a decent sized herd of a species that must require minimal attention.

As for Nyala; they did very well when held at Whipsnade previously, but I do wonder where they'll be housed. At the risk of drawing fire once more, opening up the land behind Dagnall Paddock (where the Nilgai are currently) and building more housing could only help.

 

[ajmcwhipsnade]

What I got from the marwell post was that the Nyala would not be coming, however sharing the bongo paddock could be a possible plan.

 

[wibbs]

I have an awful feeling that the intention is to wait for the current American Bison to die and then abandon the paddock altogether. Why, I couldn't imagine, but then I can't imagine why the Park doesn't have a decent sized herd of a species that must require minimal attention.

As for Nyala; they did very well when held at Whipsnade previously, but I do wonder where they'll be housed. At the risk of drawing fire once more, opening up the land behind Dagnall Paddock (where the Nilgai are currently) and building more housing could only help.

I did here that the american bison are only at whipsnade because the residents like them there , across the road by where the bison are is a beauty spot popular for dog walkers known as bison hill where you can see the bison . i heard that years ago whipsnade did get rid of the bison but brought them back due to complaints from residents . If true then i think the bison are here to stay

 

[pipaluk]

What I got from the marwell post was that the Nyala would not be coming, however sharing the bongo paddock could be a possible plan.

I read the opposite- that Nyala were leaving Marwell (along with 50% of what's left there), but if someone has denied that later, i can't see where!

 

[Pertinax]

I have an awful feeling that the intention is to wait for the current American Bison to die and then abandon the paddock altogether.

It needs the local residents to have another say in it then....

 

[Panthera1981]

I have an awful feeling that the intention is to wait for the current American Bison to die and then abandon the paddock altogether. Why, I couldn't imagine, but then I can't imagine why the Park doesn't have a decent sized herd of a species that must require minimal attention.

As for Nyala; they did very well when held at Whipsnade previously, but I do wonder where they'll be housed. At the risk of drawing fire once more, opening up the land behind Dagnall Paddock (where the Nilgai are currently) and building more housing could only help.

If they're leaving it to rot they'd have a job getting rid of all the prairie dogs from that paddock!

Maybe ZSL could "rent" the paddock out to a bison farmer along the same lines as what they do with the wild boar.

 

[IanRRobinson]

Marwell may also send some Nyala of which they have about 12 to Whipsnade who used to have them but I dont think do now.

My bolding and italics. Assuming a move that sounds as if it isn't a done deal takes place, I don't think mixing Bongo and Nyala would be a very good move. Bull Nyala are stroppy beasts and too closely related to Bongo for there not to be a risk of fighting. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

Having said that, I'd like to see the Bongo back at London, currently without any wild Bovidae, which I can't believe has ever been the case in its near 200 year history

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

My bolding and italics. Assuming a move that sounds as if it isn't a done deal takes place, I don't think mixing Bongo and Nyala would be a very good move. Bull Nyala are stroppy beasts and too closely related to Bongo for there not to be a risk of fighting. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

Having said that, I'd like to see the Bongo back at London, currently without any wild Bovidae, which I can't believe has ever been the case in its near 200 year history

Bongo are better suited to Regent's Park anyway!

I would prefer to see American bison on Bison Hill replaced with European bison or wisent Bison bonasus. Fits better with any conservation story and a definite in situ conservation link. Believe me it would make a lot more sense as the population at 3,500 - 4,000 is far from secure either. On the other hand American bison are back in good numbers … (although in the wild lands more in number would be needed.

 

[okapis]

I have an awful feeling that the intention is to wait for the current American Bison to die and then abandon the paddock altogether. Why, I couldn't imagine, but then I can't imagine why the Park doesn't have a decent sized herd of a species that must require minimal attention.

As for Nyala; they did very well when held at Whipsnade previously, but I do wonder where they'll be housed. At the risk of drawing fire once more, opening up the land behind Dagnall Paddock (where the Nilgai are currently) and building more housing could only help.

Marwell have 2.10 Nyala and they want to move some on,have not bred them for last 3 4 years,go back to 2005 when they had 21 at end of year with 13 born that year but they did have 8 deaths. oh well at least we have Dinosaurs for 6 months.ha.

 

[Pertinax]

Maybe ZSL could "rent" the paddock out to a bison farmer along the same lines as what they do with the wild boar.

'Rent a Bison'...


But I think for a major collection like Whipsnade/ZSL to sink to that sort of penny-pinching level is unnecessary and slightly ridiculous. All they need do is add another four or so Bison to make it a respectable looking group again. I think they are just apathetic about them though. I would also prefer to see American Bison stay there, not Wisent. It is a very exposed site better suited to the American species I think, Wisent being more of a forest species.

 

[Communityzoo]

I think it would be very difficult to place surplus bison anywhere but a commercial bison farm. I know at least one other zoo was attacked by CAPS for allegedly sending their bison to such a venture a few years ago. I assumed Whipsnade was just avoiding similar dilemmas by maintaining either a non-breeding pair or just restricting numbers. Similarly, Paignton maintained just a pair of bison until a few years ago (although these did breed).

At risk of sounding like a broken record, I think the American bison is a fascintating conservation story to be told, and its very rare to see captive groups used to tell this story. I'd even argue the percieved impurity of most captive individuals is also a useful way in to teaching genetics, hybrid vigour, and debating whether genetic impurity is an obstacle to reintroductions where an ecological niche can be fulfilled by what is ecologically, if not genetically, the same (sub)species.

 

[Pertinax]

I assumed Whipsnade was just avoiding similar dilemmas by maintaining either a non-breeding pair or just restricting numbers, as was the case with Paignton's bison.

Quite possibly. Two just isn't a worthwhile display on that Hill though- they need half a dozen minumum, even if they take steps not to breed them if they don't want to and for the reasons you give.

 

[IanRRobinson]

Frankly, I really don't see the problem in sending surplus American Bison to commercial farms. If most zoo visitors were veg(etari)ans, different story - but I very much doubt that is the case at Whipsnade, or anywhere else.

The more important issue is the ecology of Bison Hill, and giving the Park a shop window; I can't think of any other exhibits that can be seen from outside its perimeter. Both considerations really should lead to the paddock being restocked.

 

[Communityzoo]

Quite possibly. Two just isn't a worthwhile display on that Hill though- they need half a dozen minumum, even if they take steps not to breed them if they don't want to and for the reasons you give.

Looking at the most recent inventory, it struck me how small many of the ungulate groups were, particularly the antelope (typically no more than 1.4 for each species). I'm wondering if this is a similar situation to Marwell, and if there had been a tendency over the years to scale back the numbers of individuals to levels just sufficient to give visitors the impression of occupancy, but kept deliberately low to minimise costs. This doesn't seem to apply to the deer though for some reason.

 

[Pertinax]

but kept deliberately low to minimise costs. This doesn't seem to apply to the deer though for some reason.

I think that may well be the case, but it lends many of the larger paddocks at Whipsnade an empty feel which is what people(even average zoo-goers too) do notice. The Deer( apart from those offshow Black Fallow and some Reindeer) are all in the Asian plains nowadays so they need larger numbers to fill it up probably.

 

[IanRRobinson]

Frankly, many of Whipsnade's ungulates don't need such huge paddocks, to which they can't be given access during the winter. Bigger yards that would give them exercise and avoid excess hoof growth would be more useful.

It's also instructive to see that the Scimitar -horned Oryx haven't suffered from a chunk being taken out of their paddock through the lion enclosure being created. Maybe other paddocks - Spicer's, the huge White Rhino/Roan area being the prize example - could be re-configured accordingly. It might, for example, be a way of getting the Hunting Dogs moved to Whipsnade

 

[Communityzoo]

The antelope were all out in their paddocks when I visited Whipsnade in November a couple of years ago - is this not usually the case? I more strongly associate the practice of shutting hoofstock onto the hardstands with Marwell, although I'm led to believe this is not done to the extent it used to be.

 

[okapis]

The antelope were all out in their paddocks when I visited Whipsnade in November a couple of years ago - is this not usually the case? I more strongly associate the practice of shutting hoofstock onto the hardstands with Marwell, although I'm led to believe this is not done to the extent it used to be.

Yes seems to be what you say but I think the 3 last female Kudu held up by the chapmans zebra will not be allowed out on paddock prior to them going.Arabian Oryx are allowed out on old Gemsbok paddock and they seem fine but not sure about putting them out on grass,on Arabian Marwell hold the only U.K.animals took last from Whipsnade ex London,they have 6 animals at the moment,would like another U.K.zoo to start a second group but no one seems intrested I wonder why?.

 

[Pertinax]

would like another U.K.zoo to start a second group but no one seems intrested I wonder why?.

Fifty years ago a group of Arabian Oryx, if they ever became available, would have been much sought after by many Zoos, and a treasured and advertised possession if they had them. Not any more though. That's rarity value for you.

 

[Animal Friendly]

I think it would be very difficult to place surplus bison anywhere but a commercial bison farm. I know at least one other zoo was attacked by CAPS for allegedly sending their bison to such a venture a few years ago. I assumed Whipsnade was just avoiding similar dilemmas by maintaining either a non-breeding pair or just restricting numbers. Similarly, Paignton maintained just a pair of bison until a few years ago (although these did breed).

At risk of sounding like a broken record, I think the American bison is a fascintating conservation story to be told, and its very rare to see captive groups used to tell this story. I'd even argue the percieved impurity of most captive individuals is also a useful way in to teaching genetics, hybrid vigour, and debating whether genetic impurity is an obstacle to reintroductions where an ecological niche can be fulfilled by what is ecologically, if not genetically, the same (sub)species.

I recall when C.A.P.S. exposed a major zoo in this country for sending bison to a commercial bison farm, and on that occasion in my opinion I think they had a valid point, I also recall another well known and respected zoo in this country being criticised for supplying ostrich to a commercial ostrich farm. The question is where do you draw the line?, zoos claim that their purpose is to educate and conserve endangered species, none of this is being achieved by simply rearing animals with a view to sending them away later where they will end up on someone's barbecue when they invite friends round, "Isn't this great we have bison steaks , how marvellous!", I think not. I also think you made a valid point previously concerning the transport of bison to their point of slaughter, which without doubt will be very stressful to these wild animals, they are not domestic, usually docile domestic bovines. I question why when literally millions of domestic farm animals are slaughtered in this country every year, and many do not even have the pleasure of being stunned prior to having their throats slit, this would not appear to be enough to satisfy the tastes of certain omnivorous humans, people who think it is great to have reindeer on Christmas Day being another example. Where do you draw the line on this?, could it be possible that in the future the problem of surplus male elephants and gorillas could be solved by selling them to the "exotic" meat trade?