Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Yes, me too...
I am sure there is minimal (if any) illegal trade in Australian waterfowl...!
Why are most Australian mammals rare outside of Australian Zoos?
- Thread starter nrg2001
- Start date
Yes, me too...
I am sure there is minimal (if any) illegal trade in Australian waterfowl...!
I think there is minimal illegal trade in Australian birds in general. There is this high profile case, where people challenge the export of parrots to Europe, but even if it is not in line with all legislation, it is still done with approval of the governments involved. Most Australian species in captivity outside Australia breed very well and for most species there is no financial reason to illegally acquire them.
It depends greatly on the species in question. In birds, easily bred Australian avian species like zebra finches, budgies, cockatiels, Crested pigeons etc. are a dime in a dozen. Certain sought-after (sub)species of cockatoos - not so much. Hence, there is a financial incentive for ruthless smugglers.
The same can be said about reptiles. Inland bearded dragon? Filling up reptile shelters (unless it's a currently popular color morph). Central Range taipan, certain Pseudechis / Notechis species... - (near) impossible to get legally outside of Australia.
The same can be said about reptiles. Inland bearded dragon? Filling up reptile shelters (unless it's a currently popular color morph). Central Range taipan, certain Pseudechis / Notechis species... - (near) impossible to get legally outside of Australia.
Yes there is an interest, but especially the black cockatoos are quite high profile and all listed under CITES. With all the strength and weaknesses it does make an impact here. I know several countries that have requested parental tests on this group before issuing a CITES certificate as another control tool. Interestingly when looking at softbills, they are absent from captivity outside Australia, are very interesting but there is no massive illegal trade. And they would be much lower risk than parrots.
Smuggling is always about rarities. Back when hooded parrots were first bred by a certain Australian zoo a friend was employed there as a bird keeper. He told me he was offered a considerable amount of money to get some over the wall where they would have been smuggled out of the country. Hooded parrots are now commonly bred to the point that a few years back I was at an aviculture meeting where someone was trying to give half a dozen away.
A friend who was formally a curator of birds at a major zoo tells me that generally overseas zoos were chasing birds like Australian magpies and kookaburras. This posed difficulties as by Australian law to be exported the birds had to be captive bred. Mostly these common birds came into Australian zoos as rescues and few zoos would bother breeding them.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
This was 30 years ago. Point though is what zoos want is often not what smugglers would find profitable to smuggle.
Yea right!
There are many 'non-seedeater' species in oversea zoo collections and I doubt that many of these have been bred in captivity very often.
I'm really not sure where you're going with this. In the US we only have a few species of 'non-seedeaters' barring waterfowl and lorikeets. Even so we don't have the rarer lorikeets like Purple-crowned or Little.
Species I can think of:
Emu (established)
Tawny Frogmouth (established)
Masked Lapwing (established I think)
Laughing Kookaburra (established)
Blue-winged Kookaburra
Blue-faced Honeyeater
Australian Magpie
White-breasted Woodswallow (becoming more stable)
That's literally about the extent of it. Everything else is a duck, pigeon, parrot, or estrildid finch. We don't even have that much variety in our Australian pigeons, and there's a lot of absent parrots too. Most species we do have from those four groups are pretty established anyway. We have things like Southern Cassowary, Metallic Starling, and Fawn-breasted Bowerbird, but their range is much larger in New Guinea than Australia.
Examples of such species being...?
I'm definitely struggling to come up with anything that isn't either bred frequently in overseas zoos (e.g. Kookaburras) or is also from New Guinea where exports are legal.
There are none. All species restricted to Australia but present outside have sustainable populations. There was an influx of white-breasted woodswallows some years ago but the species' range is much wider than Australia and I would consider Indonesia a much more likelier source. In the 90s there were some Australian lorikeet exports, but those came from the introduced populations in New Zealand, which was more than happy to export them. And the next species establishing themselves outside Australia is the purple-crowned lorikeet, who originate from the famous export to Germany.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Yes, this thread has diverged from mammals, but to continue it...
The problem is I think, the statements above by three contributors that Aussie birds (along with reptiles) are illegally smuggled and mammals are not - largely.
I do not think this is true. The logistics of smuggling birds from Australian would be immense. Presumably it would have to be done by air, and given the distances involved are so large. The chances of anything surviving the journey would be very low.
Reptiles could (and presumably do) stand such journeys - we have a Marbled Gecko found inside someones suitcase in Peterborough (Cambridgeshire - UK!) after a family holiday down under.
The problem is I think, the statements above by three contributors that Aussie birds (along with reptiles) are illegally smuggled and mammals are not - largely.
I do not think this is true. The logistics of smuggling birds from Australian would be immense. Presumably it would have to be done by air, and given the distances involved are so large. The chances of anything surviving the journey would be very low.
Reptiles could (and presumably do) stand such journeys - we have a Marbled Gecko found inside someones suitcase in Peterborough (Cambridgeshire - UK!) after a family holiday down under.
I've heard similar stories of anoles traveling abroad from the Caribbean. Given many reptiles can go a few days or longer without food, they are definitely easier to smuggle. Small birds need food on a daily basis, especially if subjected to cold temperatures on a long flight. Trying to smuggle something like honeyeaters or fairy-wrens would probably result in complete losses.
What zoo would want to buy black market Aussie birds anyway? If you announced or displayed any species not already present you'd immediately be caught out. Australia definitely seems to keep an eye out for that sort of thing, given the current ACTP fiasco.
Sorry to disagree but birds are smuggled both to and from Australia. These days it is most likely be by way of eggs but in the past live birds have definitely been smuggled. The fact that there are now established populations of the most desirable birds (parrots) in overseas collections means that outbound smuggling is no longer prominent, does not mean it did not happen. For instance I know orange-bellied parrots were smuggled to the UK back in the sixties or early seventies.
I should add that smuggling does not require sticking animals in your luggage on a flight from Sydney to London. Options include via cargo ships or light aircraft into Indonesia then onwards from there.
Last edited:
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Not sure that I understand this sentence - but surely most (if not all) populations of Australian birds in other countries are as said above, either non-endemics or are descended from historical imports.
I still believe that barring the odd example, the implication given higher up this thread that bird-smuggling out of Australia to feed the west is rife, is wrong.
Of course there are numerous ways of smuggling, but most involve flights. You could send them by post, and (some?) herps might survive that too, but ...
I think large parrots (and possibly large falcons, but few of these in Australia) are the only group of birds with sufficient interest to fuel larger scale smuggling.
Australia lacks megafauna besides kangaroos. There are also koalas, which are awkward to feed and so most zoos don't want them. That is why interest in Australian animals is very niche. A platypus is less interesting for the general public than an otter. A numbat is less interesting than a meerkat. A lyrebird is less important for conservation than any of endangered pheasants. So Australia with its strict import laws nearly shut itself from interest of zoo public in its wildlife.
Australia lacks megafauna besides kangaroos. There are also koalas, which are awkward to feed and so most zoos don't want them. That is why interest in Australian animals is very niche. A platypus is less interesting for the general public than an otter. A numbat is less interesting than a meerkat. A lyrebird is less important for conservation than any of endangered pheasants. So Australia with its strict import laws nearly shut itself from interest of zoo public in its wildlife.
As Chlidonias says, several of the softbill-species are also found on New Guinea and I know of earlier imports from New Guinea of Blue-winged kookaburra's, White-breasted woodswallows and Blue-faced honeyeaters. All 3 species are now bred in smaller or larger numbers in the "western world".
From Musk and Scaly-breasted lorikeet I know a well-known German birdpark - together with some well-known lory-breeders imported breeding-stock from New Zealand.
I think we are talking at cross purposes here. To explain more clearly what I am saying:
- Smuggling is expensive. In terms of the discussion here we would mostly be talking about birds which can attract prices of $5,000+ each.
- The market for smuggled birds is mostly for parrots, because parrot fanciers are most likely to pay the price. This is not to say other birds may not be involved. I am aware for instance of one attempt to smuggle turacos (as eggs) into Australia.
- Which brings me to another point, it is a two way process.
- A species is likely to be subject to smuggling until the price of birds bred in the recipient country drops below the price of smuggled birds.
- For probably the last 40 years most smuggling would have been as eggs, which of course can easily be transported in hand luggage by air.
- Prior to that there would have been a number of options, including sea, forged documents, bribery of officials etc. One factor would be that in previous years smuggling birds would not have been seen as such a serious offence, many people would not have thought much about looking the other way.
- I am not suggesting there is a large trade currently in Australian birds, or that it poses any conservation risk. But to claim it does not exist is I believe an unsustainable position.
Objection, your honor! The platypus is one of the most popular animals, featured in various media, children books, popular cartoon series etc. Even if most people are at first surprised by its small size, it's the quintessential "odd" animal. Haven't you seen the fake "baby platypus" toys reached around again and again on the social media?
What limits its wider global distribution are its husbandry requirements and its lack of availability, also due to Australian red tape. Koalas, just as the numbat, are nutritional specialists. Yet unlike koalas, most people have never heard of the numbat. And frankly, numbats don't stand a chance against the teddy bear image of koalas...