Bronx Zoo Wild Asia Bronx Zoo
- Thread starter aw101
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Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, both are failures in their different ways, i think.
The WildAsia monorail, in which all seats face the inside of the track loop where all the exhibits are (yes, all on one side of the track) moves through acres of hilly forest. Often the herds of axis deer or guar or whatever may be under far away trees or over a ridge and therefore some visitors see very little. Sometimes there are wonderful views. I have taken the "ride" before Park hours at super slow speed, looking for animals, and in that way it was great fun. But visitors can't do that.
I find both WildAsia and SDWAP Africa train to be bleak experiences. Even though the enclosures are often huge (some are small), the terrain has been so worn down in some places (for WildAsia the rhinos do the worst to their area, elephants are hard on theirs, too - at SDWAP it is all dust) or the animals are so far away (is a herd of dozens of deer lying under trees a quarter of a mile away really fun to see while you are moving and they are gone from sight as swiftly as they appeared?) Lots of deer. You gotta love deer.
The Bronx Zoo has tried on and off for years to make this the great experience it could be. But in the end they found it wasn't cost effective to run the train as slowly as was necessary to make it a fun "safari." And there's a question as to whether most visitors would want to devote the time to it. I expect they will continue to tinker with it.
If some member here loves WildAsia I'd be interested in hearing about it from them!
Well, I liked Wild Asia. Parts of it (start and tigers) are really the only places in Bronx Zoo where I felt they replicated my past experiences in the wild. Like jeep ride in dry forest in Ranthambore or some other reserve in central India.
I didn't like that all exhibits were passed at about the same speed. With tigers, elephants and interesting behaviors it was too short. When we passed tigers, the guide had even to hurry that all visitors see the tiger. (BTW, laser pointer would help there, like ones used by birdwatching tours).
I didn't like that commentary was rather bland and impersonal. No wonder visitors looked bored and the train had to go fast. "A deer, it is endangered, another deer, it is endangered, another deer, it is endangered". I think it was meant that visitors see replica of some generalized wild species in wild nature, but they overdone it. I would tell more about individual animals, some trivia like their names and likes, dislikes, about specific reserves and conservation projects. It is personality of animals and small details who engage people's mind.
And I would like baiting animals to the front. Perhaps also children given apple each, to throw to their favorite animal.
BTW - in India, even resting deer were interesting. You could see the herd structure, enjoy some small interactions between animals. I don't know why in zoo it was boring.
I didn't like that all exhibits were passed at about the same speed. With tigers, elephants and interesting behaviors it was too short. When we passed tigers, the guide had even to hurry that all visitors see the tiger. (BTW, laser pointer would help there, like ones used by birdwatching tours).
I didn't like that commentary was rather bland and impersonal. No wonder visitors looked bored and the train had to go fast. "A deer, it is endangered, another deer, it is endangered, another deer, it is endangered". I think it was meant that visitors see replica of some generalized wild species in wild nature, but they overdone it. I would tell more about individual animals, some trivia like their names and likes, dislikes, about specific reserves and conservation projects. It is personality of animals and small details who engage people's mind.
And I would like baiting animals to the front. Perhaps also children given apple each, to throw to their favorite animal.
BTW - in India, even resting deer were interesting. You could see the herd structure, enjoy some small interactions between animals. I don't know why in zoo it was boring.
Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
The San Diego Wild Animal Park's monorail (now tram) ride is one of the more frustrating aspects of a visit. Most of us simply want to stop the journey and savour the moment of gazing out at large herds of animals. The bonobos, greater one-horned rhinos and many species of antelope are passed in literally seconds, and it devalues the entire experience. I've heard many stories about the Bronx Zoo's Wild Asia ride, and the inability to proceed at ones own pace hampers the effect of seeing amazing captive wildlife. It is the same problem at all open-range zoos, as perhaps there should be more walkways so that passengers can evacuate the monorail/tram/bus at specific pitstops, linger and snap photos, and then catch the next ride that comes along.
I believe that a guest's experience at either Bronx or SDWAP can be different based on who your guide was. A poor guide and make for a boring and poor experience. If you have an interesting guide that knows their stuff (like Jurek7 mentioned), your experience might be a lot better despite having to glide past the enclosures.
kifaru
Well-Known Member
Thanks for starting this thread, aw101. I have long hated the Wild Asia "ride"-- it is even worse than the SDWAP tram, in that it does move so awfully fast and it is a boring, impersonal experience that gives you zero chance to observe wildlife. I hate the idea of wildlife experience as "ride". And the bland soundbyte commentary is dismal-- and boring. WildAsia is definitely one of the weak points of an otherwise glorious park. Surely, with the ingenuity and funding at its disposal, WCS could come with something better for its flagship zoo.
Several years ago the Bronx began planning a major change to Wild Asia, which would have involved creating a station mid-way through the ride for visitors to disembark and a major expansion of the elephant exhibit and holding area.
When the costs starting being calculated ($50 million and climbing), it was declared that the Bronx would no longer exhibit elephants (once the current residents die). Not much has been discussed about improving the unsatisfactory Wild Asia experience since. So was the elephant decision (one that really ticked off the AZA and many elephant-exhibiting zoos) really about "ethics" or driven by financial considerations????
The Bronx "one-sided monorail" design was adopted by the Dallas Zoo for its Africa exhibit in the late 1980s. It is often inoperable because the cars are more enclosed than the Bronx version, and cannot be air-conditioned in the blistering Texas summers! Like Wild Asia and SDWAP, the Dallas "ride" is very annoying to anyone who wants to actually watch animals, but kids like them because it is a novel way to travel, and the zoos like them because it raises revenue.
When the costs starting being calculated ($50 million and climbing), it was declared that the Bronx would no longer exhibit elephants (once the current residents die). Not much has been discussed about improving the unsatisfactory Wild Asia experience since. So was the elephant decision (one that really ticked off the AZA and many elephant-exhibiting zoos) really about "ethics" or driven by financial considerations????
The Bronx "one-sided monorail" design was adopted by the Dallas Zoo for its Africa exhibit in the late 1980s. It is often inoperable because the cars are more enclosed than the Bronx version, and cannot be air-conditioned in the blistering Texas summers! Like Wild Asia and SDWAP, the Dallas "ride" is very annoying to anyone who wants to actually watch animals, but kids like them because it is a novel way to travel, and the zoos like them because it raises revenue.
One has to hope that the Bronx Zoo's decision to stop exhibiting elephants was due to concerns over the ethical treatment of pachyderms in captivity. The number of foot and joint ailments in captive elephants is appalling, and I challenge anyone to come up with 10 truly excellent elephant enclosures. Of the around 80 zoos with elephants in North America, how many of the exhibits are even 2 acres or more in size? How many of the enclosures are actually world class? Maybe two or three out of eighty?
I'm sure that the Bronx Zoo did consider the financial obligations in sustaining an elephant herd in New York City, as well as the morality of keeping such large mammals locked up. Getting back to the monorail, I wonder what the perception of such rides is by the general public. Time and time again here at ZooBeat us zoo enthuasists bash trams/monorails/buses...but in actuality the average visitor might enjoy the break from walking. In my opinion they are for the most part a waste of time and money, and more people should be encouraged to stroll around zoos and take the opportunity to spend quality time watching the animals on display rather than zipping along in some type of vehicle.
I'm sure that the Bronx Zoo did consider the financial obligations in sustaining an elephant herd in New York City, as well as the morality of keeping such large mammals locked up. Getting back to the monorail, I wonder what the perception of such rides is by the general public. Time and time again here at ZooBeat us zoo enthuasists bash trams/monorails/buses...but in actuality the average visitor might enjoy the break from walking. In my opinion they are for the most part a waste of time and money, and more people should be encouraged to stroll around zoos and take the opportunity to spend quality time watching the animals on display rather than zipping along in some type of vehicle.
While the Bronx Zoo's Wild Asia elephant exhibit falls short of being "world-class" it is among the better ones in the US, from an elephant's perspective. It's well over an acre in size, and unlike most barren, open zoo elephant exhibits it is located within a mature forest. Deep pool, soft substrate and tree canopy shade are all present. Obviously the biggest concern is(was?) the long winter periods when the animals were indoors on concrete. Of course I am always amazed/impressed when visiting European zoos in the winter to see many animals, including elephants, given access to the outdoors with snow on the ground, which is never done in US zoos.
But I must weigh in on the exhibit size question. While in general bigger is better, I've seen no real evidence that directly correlates acreage to animal well-being in elephants or other species. Has anyone ever done an ethogram of the spatial usage of the elephants at the much-vaunted "sanctuaries" in the US? I would bet they only use a certain small portion of their large ranges--look at Seattle where one half of the exhibit is almost never used by the animals (yet they are getting hammered for having "too small" a space by many critics). It's really all about spatial QUALITY, good soft substrates, and social structure, in my opinion.
The Bronx as an industry leader should have led the way and demonstrated how to do it right; unfortunately on this issue they took the easy way out by declaring they would simply get out of the elephant business. It will be up to Denver and a few other brave institutions to take elephant husbandry to the next level in North America.
But I must weigh in on the exhibit size question. While in general bigger is better, I've seen no real evidence that directly correlates acreage to animal well-being in elephants or other species. Has anyone ever done an ethogram of the spatial usage of the elephants at the much-vaunted "sanctuaries" in the US? I would bet they only use a certain small portion of their large ranges--look at Seattle where one half of the exhibit is almost never used by the animals (yet they are getting hammered for having "too small" a space by many critics). It's really all about spatial QUALITY, good soft substrates, and social structure, in my opinion.
The Bronx as an industry leader should have led the way and demonstrated how to do it right; unfortunately on this issue they took the easy way out by declaring they would simply get out of the elephant business. It will be up to Denver and a few other brave institutions to take elephant husbandry to the next level in North America.
I would second that Wild Asia, despite failure in details, is generally very good exhibit. And current outside elephant paddock is one of better ones. Have no idea about indoor house.
Bronx actually has potential for very good breeding elephant exhibit, with so many acres of little used wooded parkland, both within Wild Asia and outside.
Bronx actually has potential for very good breeding elephant exhibit, with so many acres of little used wooded parkland, both within Wild Asia and outside.
@reduakari: you bring up a good point in relation to the Denver Zoo. The 10-acre "Asian Tropics", with rotating one-horned rhinos, malayan tapirs and asian elephants, should hopefully prove to be worth its $40 million. Of course there are a number of other species that will be kept in that section of the zoo (see Denver's thread) but the emphasis will be on the large groups of mammals. I am hoping that the set of exhibits sets the industry standard for pachyderms. Perhaps the Bronx Zoo jumped on the bandwagon, as something like 16 different U.S. zoos have stopped exhibiting elephants, but at least the zoos that still keep them are improving their enclosures.
Another good point that was brought up was the disparity between European and U.S. zoos in terms of elephant husbandry in the winter. At the Valley Zoo in Edmonton there have been studies done that show that Lucy the female Asian elephant can easily spend 75% of her life locked in the tiny barn. The ice, snow and sleet keeps her inside, and there are countless other North American zoos that don't follow the European method of allowing their elephants out in the wintertime. It's cruel to keep such intelligent mammals shut inside for literally days and weeks at a time.
Another good point that was brought up was the disparity between European and U.S. zoos in terms of elephant husbandry in the winter. At the Valley Zoo in Edmonton there have been studies done that show that Lucy the female Asian elephant can easily spend 75% of her life locked in the tiny barn. The ice, snow and sleet keeps her inside, and there are countless other North American zoos that don't follow the European method of allowing their elephants out in the wintertime. It's cruel to keep such intelligent mammals shut inside for literally days and weeks at a time.
I don't find Wild Asia to be a good exhibit. It would be nice if you can see the animals. And couple of minutes is too short for me to look at anything. And I have to take another ride if I didn't see the animal I want to see on the previous ride. Few rides later, it becomes too expensive for me. Some zoos are building this style of exhibit like African Savanna in Dallas Zoo and Africa Live in Toledo. I understand zoos need to increase revenue. But I already paid to enter the zoo, I think charge me to see the animals is kind of unfair.
@yangz: if you only want to pay one admission price, and I completely agree with you on that one, then check out the San Diego Wild Animal Park. Now visitors have to pay their entrance fee to the park, then pay another fee to ride the African monorail, and soon will have to pay a third fee to ride the Asian monorail. Then there is another fee if you want to ride up in the hot air balloon, and yet another fee for any additional, close-encounter rides. You might as well just leave them your credit card and pick it up the next day when they've finished adding up all of the various charges...
tigertiger
Well-Known Member
I've always personally enjoyed the Wild Asia ride at the Bronx Zoo. It's always been one of my highlights. On the one hand, it's the only part of the zoo you can see most of these animals (the red panda and the elephants being the exception to this rule) so it makes the experience a somewhat special one. And sure, sometimes the ride goes too fast and sometimes the animals aren't out but I think that's more a realistic experience. In the 'wild,' animals aren't always in the prime viewing area. It is a sad thing when you're at a zoo and you can't see an animal (especially if you've come to see that animal) but these animals are trying to live. I wouldn't want to be out in the prime viewing areas all the time either ha.
I think that for 90% of the zoo population, it's a great time. A 20 minute trip "to Asia" to see animals you've never really seen before. Plus anyway, for most visitors--they want to see the animal. They don't want to lavishly observe them for hours. The 1-minute period that most tour guides now spend in each exhibit now (when the animals are clear and present) is more than enough for most. Personally, I've always thought that one of the best solutions to this problems (with some visitors wanting to spend more time than others in the exhibits) is to several times a week run a much slower ride through the Asia exhibit. I don't think that it would be too much more exhaustive financially (though I wouldn't know numbers clearly) to perhaps run the last train of each day out for twice as long.
I think that for 90% of the zoo population, it's a great time. A 20 minute trip "to Asia" to see animals you've never really seen before. Plus anyway, for most visitors--they want to see the animal. They don't want to lavishly observe them for hours. The 1-minute period that most tour guides now spend in each exhibit now (when the animals are clear and present) is more than enough for most. Personally, I've always thought that one of the best solutions to this problems (with some visitors wanting to spend more time than others in the exhibits) is to several times a week run a much slower ride through the Asia exhibit. I don't think that it would be too much more exhaustive financially (though I wouldn't know numbers clearly) to perhaps run the last train of each day out for twice as long.
The time of day is a huge factor if you want to get a good look at the animal and see it active. At the San Diego Wild Animal Park you shoud ride the Journey into Africa in the morning. Also, since the WAP just had a baby Black Rhino, this is the time to see the baby active. Plus, at this time there is less people. I suggest if you are going to a zoo with a tram/monorail to ride that tram/monorail first thing in the morning. If an animal is active, chances are the guides will spend more take more time when passing an exhibit.
Buckeye092
Well-Known Member
Most US zoos allow elephants out in colder temperatures, even if there is snow. The general cutoff is 25 degrees or higher with no ice. I've seen Columbus, Cleveland, Toledo, and Indianapolis elephants out in colder conditions, two with snow.
Also, in the wild some Asian elephants in southern China and northern India experience snow and cold weather conditions.
Also, in the wild some Asian elephants in southern China and northern India experience snow and cold weather conditions.
IheartMaxine
New Member
I used to work at the Bronx Zoo in the Wild Asia Monorail just last year and I agree that the tour guide really makes the ride. If you have a bad tour guide, your twenty minutes on the ride will seem like a hellish eternity, but a good tour guide will make it very enjoyable. As far as the speed of the ride was concerned, there were certain exhibits where we had to go faster than others. For example, we were prohibited from stopping at the elephant exhibit or going too slow because they hated the trains and I witnessed several times where they would come charging towards us and some people don't understand that we do want them to see the animals but we would much rather get them out of an exhibit than get charged by a 10000 pound elephant. In the exhibit with the gaur and the brow-antlered deer it's hard to see them towards the end of the day because they go towards the back of the exhibit because that's where the entrance gates were that led them back inside. Most animals did this, they would go to where the gates were near closing time because they knew it was time to go. The horses for example would be all over the exhibit in the morning but by 4:30 they'd be in the very beginning because that's where they would go in through. If you want a really good look at the animals, go earlier than two.