Africa Alive! Wild Asses in UK.
- Thread starter Pertinax
- Start date
bongorob,
Well that is super news!
Marwell had previously had a dirge of males and somehow you do not get a growing UK population on that. Indeed very welcome news!Which of the parents Possa and Tikva are original Hai Bar animals (different breeding line than the Basel group). Do you know? And the breeding male is also an ex Hai Bar, is not he?
Whipsnade sent a male away and the other females have died. They are still interested in keeping onager. A male foal was born this year giving a UK total 3.4
in two zoos. Chester hopes to have foals in 2008. They are continuing to work with Onagers.
bongorob,
Where the Whipsnade onagers old age animals (onager are long lived)?
What about the current animals: what are their origins (the male sire and female dam)?
Where the Whipsnade onagers old age animals (onager are long lived)?
What about the current animals: what are their origins (the male sire and female dam)?
Sorry for the delay in replying, I only just saw this post.
I can't help you with this info yet, I'll try to find out.
kulan & Onager are virtually indistinguishable from each other.
No one has Indian Wild Ass though I'm not sure if its a 'full' species in its own right..
Writhedhornbill
Well-Known Member
Pertinax, is the indian wild ass known as a Khur?
Pertinax,
1. That is not entirely right. Skullwise and morphologically they are different. It is just that at the DNA level no significant genetic differences can be discerned. The reason why I am cautious to treat them as one subspecies as was once proposed by DNA investigators is the very fact the Elbruz mountains and Kaukasus are the veritable ecological barrier between both the kulan and onager populations. And once more, there are taxonomic and morphological differences. Just read the Groves' wild ass essays for that.
2. Khur are the Indian wild ass - previously ranging in India/Pakistan and now confined to the Rann of Kutch. The population is veering over the 2,000 mark and is slowly increasing. The latter despite India's burgeoning population growth. It is another recognised subspecies of Equus hemionus.
Population growth I view as the most dangerous environmentally unsustainable issue of our time which brings us habitat and biodiversity loss. We need not invest in health care, but in education and birth control/contraception to combat poverty and conserve our natural resources.
I might be mistaken but didn't Welsh Mountain Zoo house kiang or kulan just recently? I couldn't find any reference to them on the website, and haven't been there myself, but I'm sure I remember reading something previously. It was more the fact they had them is why I remember.
re Marwell
According to my notes (which may not be 100%!!)
The female from Hai bar is Tikya. The sire of both the recent female foals was Rodulpho who came to Marwell from Switzerland. He has now gone to Beauval zoo in France.
The other breeding female, Possa, also came to Marwell from Switzerland
As well as the 4 females there are currently 3 males:
Future - from Hai Bar
Berger - born @ Marwell in 1996 to Rodulpho and Possa
Malik - born @ Marwell in 2006 to Rodulpho and Tikya
According to my notes (which may not be 100%!!)
The female from Hai bar is Tikya. The sire of both the recent female foals was Rodulpho who came to Marwell from Switzerland. He has now gone to Beauval zoo in France.
The other breeding female, Possa, also came to Marwell from Switzerland
As well as the 4 females there are currently 3 males:
Future - from Hai Bar
Berger - born @ Marwell in 1996 to Rodulpho and Possa
Malik - born @ Marwell in 2006 to Rodulpho and Tikya
1. I did say VIRTUALLY indistinguishable which I think is a fairly accurate estimation. Marwell used to display both Kulan & Onager and no-one could tell the differences...
2. There's your answer Hornbill...
I guess that is a possibility - but I guess it depends on the recommendations of the stud book keeper.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
1. I did say VIRTUALLY indistinguishable which I think is a fairly accurate estimation. Marwell used to display both Kulan & Onager and no-one could tell the differences...
Yet another case of sub-specification gone mad if you ask me......
If the animals are identical to look then its the DNA thats different, if the DNA is the same then we have to preserve both cause one has 2 more eyelashes than the other. At some point, you have to admit that they are the same. It is clear that zoos can only conserve a tiny % of all species under threat and if these are continually sub-divided into smaller and smaller 'pure-bred' geographically isolated groups then what we are really saying is that we should be conserve specific populations rather than species (which is an even bigger task). I'm not saying that we should cross-breed every sub-species (e.g. tigers which are clearly adapted to different environments) but you must remember that these classifications are artificial. They are 'pigeon holes' to assist people in understanding the natural world (and they also perpetuate a collector mentality). Populations which once mixed and bred now do not because of man-made isolation and therefore whatever slight differences between populations upon isolation from each other are preserved. This does not mean they are should be kept separate if a) the isolation is recent and b) the environments in which the populations live are similiar. A population is NOT a sub-species.
1. I did say VIRTUALLY indistinguishable which I think is a fairly accurate estimation. Marwell used to display both Kulan & Onager and no-one could tell the differences...
Yet another case of sub-specification gone mad if you ask me......
If the animals are identical to look then its the DNA thats different, if the DNA is the same then we have to preserve both cause one has 2 more eyelashes than the other. At some point, you have to admit that they are the same. It is clear that zoos can only conserve a tiny % of all species under threat and if these are continually sub-divided into smaller and smaller 'pure-bred' geographically isolated groups then what we are really saying is that we should be conserve specific populations rather than species (which is an even bigger task). I'm not saying that we should cross-breed every sub-species (e.g. tigers which are clearly adapted to different environments) but you must remember that these classifications are artificial. They are 'pigeon holes' to assist people in understanding the natural world (and they also perpetuate a collector mentality). Populations which once mixed and bred now do not because of man-made isolation and therefore whatever slight differences between populations upon isolation from each other are preserved. This does not mean they are should be kept separate if a) the isolation is recent and b) the environments in which the populations live are similiar. A population is NOT a sub-species.
You may think the subspecies recog is somewhat artificial ... in reality zoo-geographical barriers have separated both kulan and onager populations without any possibility for genetic mix/hybridisation. So, with this in mind it is not sensible at all to make a generic mix of distinct populations. A mistake we have far too often made in captivity and which does not serve any conservation purpose whatsoever.
One curious example: in the only reintroduced population of Asiatic wild ass in Israel both populations have sadly been admixed - they insist on calling them onager, yet they are for a fact kulan/onager hybrids - this has never happened elsewhere in the wild. Hence, I remain strongly opposed to any admixture in captivity or in the wild.
Thankfully, Asiatic wild ass management in Europe is sound and has sought to and is determined to continue doing so not to mix kulan and onager populations. More importantly, management has finally realised that both are in fact seriously endangered taxa and should be bred in order to augment their numbers.
This sound policy has not been followed by the African wild ass management. Several equid authorities have insisted the captive population is made up of distinct Somalian and Eritrean Somali wild ass populations. This is the only reason why the recent transfer of Somalis to Djibouti was only condoned when all stallions were castrated.