Wild Big Cats In Australia. . .

Another report last week in our local paper regarding big cat sightings in the rural outskirts of nth-western Sydney; no photos though (funny about that ;)).

What did give me pause for thought however was the mention of finding of wallaby carcases and skeletons up in trees. A domestic or feral cat couldn't do that!
 
A real giveaway is the frequency of sightings around 'less respectable' collections. In the UK, lynx have often been spotted around certain parts of Norfolk, not far from the (now closed) great witchingham wildlife park (which would regularly advertise surplus lynx in a cage bird hobbyist's magazine), or on Dartmoor (where, for years, the local wildlife park under its previous owner deliberately bred large numbers of jaguar, tiger and puma to attract visitors). Either escapees stay in the area and aren't reported, or surplus animals are released, or possibly feral animals are attracted to the area to mate with the captive stock. The new owners of Dartmoor wildlife park claimed on the recent documentary series that their remaining two female pumas would often start calling at night when in season, supposedly to feral males in the area.

Many of the species caught in the UK were just escapees, and there was never any chance of a population being established. The clouded leopard was a known escapee from howletts, the servals on the Isle of Wight were likely escapees and did not survive long. Interstingly, Jungle cats have often turned up as roadkill around the southern ports, I recently read that sailors for the old east india company would take this species from Indian villages on board to control pests, and then presumably released them once they returned to England.

Given the behaviour of the press in relation to this issue, the longer the authorities can continue to dismiss or cover up evidence, the less chance of a public outcry forcing them to 'do something', compensate farmers etc. If it isn't real, it doesn't cost, basically.

If released/escaped cats are to be successful, they have to hunt, obviously they are going to do so at night. Searching for a black leopard or a puma in a rural area at night is like finding a needle in a haystack. All they have to do other than this is lie low during the day. It wouldn't be hard to remain undetected. So you are left with anecdotal evidence, occasional tracks/droppings and cat-like livestock kills.

And we are a tiny island in comparision to you :eek:
 
The new owners of Dartmoor wildlife park claimed on the recent documentary series that their remaining two female pumas would often start calling at night when in season, supposedly to feral males in the area.

That is 'hype'... the Pumas would call anyway when they're in season, regardless of any males being nearby or not.

I once saw a large black cat walking across a field- unfortunately I was driving on a motorway at the time so there was no way I could investigate further.
 
More sightings and photos

There is a phot of a supposed big cat in todays daily telegraph.

Trail of the black panther leads to Kenthurst | The Daily Telegraph

The animal in the picture to me does not look like a leopard or puma. Mainly because of the shape of the head. However I also think the animal in the picture is NOT a feral cat. the paws look too big the animal is too solid and the tail is too thick at the base. I know feral cats can get big but this to me does not look like a feral cat. I don't know if the photo is real but these sighting have become more and more frequent. What do you all think of this ?? I believe there is a small chance it could be something we haven't seen before, like a native cat. I know this is almost impossible but hey. what are your thoughts???
 
Must be a slow news day.

That picture on someones paved path has been in the paper before.

It is definitely not the mythical panther as it has the power to make all photos of it magically turn fuzzy.
 
Yes, I definately don't think it is a big cat. . . all of the photos and footage I have seen seem to show an animal with sharply pointed ears. Now correct me if I'm wrong but most big cats have rounded ears, the closest I can think of to having pointed is maybe the puma but even they aren't that pointed. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
that's one muscle-bound cat! It looks sort of like a sphynx cat but to be honest I'd say its a photoshop job. The shadow looks too sharply-defined on the ground, as if its been added in, and it doesn't seem to match the appearance of other shadows in the photo. And judging by the size comparison with the paving stones it looks like this is a very small Big Cat! To me this photo is evidence of nothing.
 
I do believe that in Australia the number of sightings is that significant to infer wild big cats are out there. Unless the evidence is scientifically verified by investigative documentation of the large cat sightings over media hyped newspaper items .... we are left with sub quality photos of ... over muscular house cats!

What I do find sad that in these instances is all to often officialdom seems to dismiss frequent reporting by residents as hoaxes or media hypes. Whatever the quality of the newspaper photos - remember those observing them are mostly non expert members of the public - a baiting and camera trapping programme is the least officialdom could do.

Having said that ... the claim by some that these big cats are the descendants of the extinct Thylacoleo are simply preposterous. It is exactly those claims without scientific substantiation that often become the ridicule of cryptozoology (which can be a serious science when properly investigated and often in areas where the conventional scientific community has failed to tread ... as for instance in the case of the thylacine and the saola).

To my mind, non native big cats being out there should be trapped as these pose a significant danger to native wildlife populations (I leave security of the general public out of the equation here for obvious reasons). For this particular purpose officialdom needs to act ... and not react!

Besides the moral ethics and all ... what on Earth possesses individuals to release wild animals into the environment irrespective of the consequences for local wildlife and people? Now that .... is the most mind boggling issue to me !!!! :rolleyes:
 
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I hope they exist but doubt it.

There are now thousands of motion sensor trail cameras out in our bush. I know deer hunters who have many cameras and I have one. If there is anything out there it will get its photo taken.

I have recently seen some very good photos of wild alpine dingo pups taken by a trail cam.
 
I'm in two minds over this; but what tips the balance a little for me was the remark by a farmer that he regularly finds wallaby carcases up in trees on his property.
I don't know of anything legitimately in Australia that could lift wallabies up into trees (apart from hoaxers maybe?)
 
A real giveaway is the frequency of sightings around 'less respectable' collections. In the UK, lynx have often been spotted around certain parts of Norfolk, not far from the (now closed) great witchingham wildlife park (which would regularly advertise surplus lynx in a cage bird hobbyist's magazine), or on Dartmoor (where, for years, the local wildlife park under its previous owner deliberately bred large numbers of jaguar, tiger and puma to attract visitors). Either escapees stay in the area and aren't reported, or surplus animals are released, or possibly feral animals are attracted to the area to mate with the captive stock. The new owners of Dartmoor wildlife park claimed on the recent documentary series that their remaining two female pumas would often start calling at night when in season, supposedly to feral males in the area.

Many of the species caught in the UK were just escapees, and there was never any chance of a population being established. The clouded leopard was a known escapee from howletts, the servals on the Isle of Wight were likely escapees and did not survive long. Interstingly, Jungle cats have often turned up as roadkill around the southern ports, I recently read that sailors for the old east india company would take this species from Indian villages on board to control pests, and then presumably released them once they returned to England.

Given the behaviour of the press in relation to this issue, the longer the authorities can continue to dismiss or cover up evidence, the less chance of a public outcry forcing them to 'do something', compensate farmers etc. If it isn't real, it doesn't cost, basically.

If released/escaped cats are to be successful, they have to hunt, obviously they are going to do so at night. Searching for a black leopard or a puma in a rural area at night is like finding a needle in a haystack. All they have to do other than this is lie low during the day. It wouldn't be hard to remain undetected. So you are left with anecdotal evidence, occasional tracks/droppings and cat-like livestock kills.

And we are a tiny island in comparision to you :eek:

The ABC's of Australia and its territories have some credance and can be shown as such. Whereas, those within the UK can be dismissed has hoaxes, mis-identification, natural phenomena, and with the exception to escapees. Having been involved in much research with this topic and have and still do act as expert witness for the UK courts and as advisor to MOD and in part for DEFRA. There has been in the past decade an explosion within the UK, so-called sightings of ABC's or big cats. Most if not all of these sightings, and they run into the thousands, have been distributed by the national press and through various so-called big cat groups, that lay claim to there being some 2800 big cats roaming free in the UK !! Some of these groups have tried to find a real explaination however, with most being full of cranks, weirdo's, and those who suffer from delusional personality disorders. One such group asks for fees to join as a member, but are not legally licenced as a company or charity, nor do many of these groups send in VAT or Accounts to the correct authorities - so beware, there are many bogus groups who spout out so-called "expert" truth. Having been associated within the UK as a leading authority on the subject, I tend only to give such help and advice to those within legal authority and can verify. After many articles on the subject, I came as have many other zoologists including the likes of Dr Graham Law, Dougie Richardson, Dr Andrew Kitchener etc. We all came to conclusion that there may be one or at the very best two such cats roaming free within the UK...and even at that, we find the weight of evidence to be lacking. Only one true case has existed of such a cat - "Felicity the Puma" however, that proved to be from my dear good friend and Zoo Inspector and Vet - George Rafferty, to be someone's joke. The puma was fed on domestic cat food and lured into a cage trap, hence the perpertraitors then called the police to report they caught a big cat...
If such cats did roam free within the UK (not Australia), the case of food is plentaful and ready, vast areas of land and woodland. However for such to breed...we found this to be highly unlikely. The chance of a male and female big cat of the same species or of similar species coming into contact to breed is nigh in possible. As is these cats been breeding since the Dangerous Animals Act came into force - not one shread of data or evidence has came up to prove this. Sadly the data, the proof is always fuzzy, out of focus pictures or video..or that of a stuffed toy...and the distance failing to meet the distance, height ratio etc.
As I have said before, the likelyhood of such cats roaming the Australian Territories remains very real, whereas, that of the UK remains as non-truthful and fanciful.
As for big cats being released deliberatly by certain parks/zoos that has been shown to be true in parts however, proof is thin and hard to come by mostly with anicdotal say-so. Dartmoor was shown to have released as was a certain defunct park in Suffolk/Norfolk. Baisldon Zoo in London was filmed undercover by National Television unlawfully selling bigcats, as well as trying to release them into the English Countryside. However...escapees do happen and some do manage to live for a while before being caught. The idea of such cats roaming free within the UK remains totally fanciful, especially given the local geography of the UK, its population of humans living within a close area to each other. Such sightings would have thrown up by now such strong and real evidence that it was true however...we only have fuzzy pictures, silly ideas, silly and mad folk running about saying "big cat" and, a national press that is hungry for stories....:confused:

For further info read:
"Senior Keeper of Carnivores at Glasgow Zoo Paul Paterson strenuously rejects the fanciful idea that large numbers of big cats roam throughout Britain."
"Experts get Claws into Big Cat Mystery...Paul Paterson of Glasgow Zoo said."
"Myth of the Big Cat Hunt"... www.scotcats.online.fr/abc/why/cathunt.html
"Zoo Chiefs Rubbish Big Cat Theory"...
www.scottishbigcats.co.uk/zoorubbish.html
"The Beast of Bexly"...
www.scottishbigcats.co.uk/bexly.html
"Evidence of Big Cats"...
www.bigcatmonitors.co.uk/evidence
"Big Cat Myth Exploded"....
Field sports and shooting news, game recipes, guns | Shooting Times

Regards....;)
 
Hi,

Seriously, folks, big cats are impossible to overlook wherever they exist. They may be shy, but leave big number of footprints well as faeces and prey remains. To make things easier, they tend to travel on dirt roads. If there is none of that, forget it.
 
Hi,

Seriously, folks, big cats are impossible to overlook wherever they exist. They may be shy, but leave big number of footprints well as faeces and prey remains. To make things easier, they tend to travel on dirt roads. If there is none of that, forget it.

That might be so, and as I said as has others. The likelyhood of such cats raoming about in Australia remains huge and most likely correct. However, within the UK, then such big cats do not exist, and most likley are escapees from exhibits or those released on purpose to cause sensation and hype. No such proof has been shown within the UK,.. pictures are fuzzy, out of focus, faked, croped from stills at zoos and parks, or from elsewhere in the world, or stuffed toys (foot prints..none within the UK have been proven, all shown to be dogs or faked prints, as for scats...not one has been found within the UK., the same applies to animal carcases...nothing proven). But we have found little to no evidence within the UK that these cats exist here...whereas, they may and do within Australia.
 
I do agree with our last 2 posters that big cats leave trails of evidence - if and when they roam the countryside - in the form of prey items, scats, urine markings and paw prints. Trailblazer camera-traps and igeneous large cat traps would be used when wild cats would be about and obviously lead to scientifically verifiable evidence of wild cat activity and capture.

In the UK - to date - the above has never happened despite all those lurid newspaper reports and glitsy documentaries on Animal Planet et al. They have never ever truthfully and scientifically verifiably established the existence of any individual large wild cat of any species within the UK, let alone any breeding populations. It is sad to have to admit that those most in the media are those parts of society that are either emotionally not stable, hold curious views re conspiracy theories and lastly never ever have the slightest understanding of scientifically based zoological research.

The Australian reports however seem to hold some thruth, allthough again the scientific community seems not be involved in establishing whether wild cat species actually do exist in the wild. The current newspaper photo series is obviously not helping and proves that most journalists never verify their stories with the experts ... otherwise you would not publish ridiculously cheapish photos of cats on the pavement. If that is supposed to be a wild cat ... go kill yourself (these are between 80-130 kgs and have a completely different body structure and locomotion)!

I wish that - as bigcatspecialist suggested for the UK - that the scientific community and wildlife authorities take over the operation of documenting the (non-)existence of wild cats in Australia. Canids and marsupial predators fine ..., so let us establish what really is going over! ;)

Having said that it is far from needed to totally dismiss the reports by the general public as definite hoaxes ... despite those preposterous claims of Thylacoleo representatives living ..., and certainly as has been shown with purported thylacines ... to dismiss the photos as probably a mangy dog (if the photos are sub-quality say so, but do not pretext them as mangy dogs and what it might be if you do not have a shred of scientific evidence to suggest you are presenting these as valid and verifiable scientific claims)!

Suffice to say: I sincerely hope Australia's wildlife authorities will investigate the claims with vigour and determination and to so get at the bottom of the truth here! :cool:
 
I do agree with our last 2 posters that big cats leave trails of evidence - if and when they roam the countryside - in the form of prey items, scats, urine markings and paw prints. Trailblazer camera-traps and igeneous large cat traps would be used when wild cats would be about and obviously lead to scientifically verifiable evidence of wild cat activity and capture.

In the UK - to date - the above has never happened despite all those lurid newspaper reports and glitsy documentaries on Animal Planet et al. They have never ever truthfully and scientifically verifiably established the existence of any individual large wild cat of any species within the UK, let alone any breeding populations. It is sad to have to admit that those most in the media are those parts of society that are either emotionally not stable, hold curious views re conspiracy theories and lastly never ever have the slightest understanding of scientifically based zoological research.

The Australian reports however seem to hold some thruth, allthough again the scientific community seems not be involved in establishing whether wild cat species actually do exist in the wild. The current newspaper photo series is obviously not helping and proves that most journalists never verify their stories with the experts ... otherwise you would not publish ridiculously cheapish photos of cats on the pavement. If that is supposed to be a wild cat ... go kill yourself (these are between 80-130 kgs and have a completely different body structure and locomotion)!

I wish that - as bigcatspecialist suggested for the UK - that the scientific community and wildlife authorities take over the operation of documenting the (non-)existence of wild cats in Australia. Canids and marsupial predators fine ..., so let us establish what really is going over! ;)

Having said that it is far from needed to totally dismiss the reports by the general public as definite hoaxes ... despite those preposterous claims of Thylacoleo representatives living ..., and certainly as has been shown with purported thylacines ... to dismiss the photos as probably a mangy dog (if the photos are sub-quality say so, but do not pretext them as mangy dogs and what it might be if you do not have a shred of scientific evidence to suggest you are presenting these as valid and verifiable scientific claims)!

Suffice to say: I sincerely hope Australia's wildlife authorities will investigate the claims with vigour and determination and to so get at the bottom of the truth here! :cool:

I can concur with this and hold strong what has been said. The UK status within the so-called big cat sightings tends to fall into what we term "scotopic" and have no credance. Imagine...a lady watching tv one night (so happens she is watching Big Cat Diary)..A few weeks later while out with her dog during the late evening, walking in a typical English or Scottish suburb, she spots a dark moving object and this object looks big, its dark and its eyes shine in the night light of that dark evening. She then reports to her local police station that she saw a cat like creature that its eyes shone back at her. The police have a duty to investigate and by doing so find nothing out of the usual that night. The next day, the lady has called the press saying she saw a big cat....then within hours the story becomes blown out of all proportion and its "big cat stalks female dog walker"...the hype insues...We can all see where this is going. (this is a scotopic event)

Within the UK, we have a greater population per head of capita that reads news papers than anywhere else within the modern world. Such stories and hype have been grown and spun, many times over. No such proof or evidence has been shown within the UK...many times over have these groups and tv shows tried to spin the idea of such things are real, but hard proof has been very thin on the ground. Whereas, within the Australian territories some credance has been shown to outweigh the British lack of proof. Likewise as Jelle has stated and which I can concur wholeheartedly, time to sort the sort the real truth from the fake lies, the spin and sillyness that has become such a laughing stock over here in the UK. Australia has many truths and its time to start finding out....
 
The Australian reports however seem to hold some thruth

AFAIK, there have been reports of feral house cats in Australia growing to huge size, although nothing above size of large house cats elsewhere in the world.

Thylacoleo

Thylacoleo had very special inscisor teeth, opposite thumb and plump structure. Live Thylacoleo and its footprints could not be mistaken with placental cats or descriptions of cryptid "Queensland striped cat" passed by first European settlers.

purported thylacines

Well, for these I have some hope. :)
 
I can concur with this and hold strong what has been said. The UK status within the so-called big cat sightings tends to fall into what we term "scotopic" and have no credance. Imagine...a lady watching tv one night (so happens she is watching Big Cat Diary)..A few weeks later while out with her dog during the late evening, walking in a typical English or Scottish suburb, she spots a dark moving object and this object looks big, its dark and its eyes shine in the night light of that dark evening. She then reports to her local police station that she saw a cat like creature that its eyes shone back at her. The police have a duty to investigate and by doing so find nothing out of the usual that night. The next day, the lady has called the press saying she saw a big cat....then within hours the story becomes blown out of all proportion and its "big cat stalks female dog walker"...the hype insues...We can all see where this is going. (this is a scotopic event)

Within the UK, we have a greater population per head of capita that reads news papers than anywhere else within the modern world. Such stories and hype have been grown and spun, many times over. No such proof or evidence has been shown within the UK...many times over have these groups and tv shows tried to spin the idea of such things are real, but hard proof has been very thin on the ground. Whereas, within the Australian territories some credance has been shown to outweigh the British lack of proof. Likewise as Jelle has stated and which I can concur wholeheartedly, time to sort the sort the real truth from the fake lies, the spin and sillyness that has become such a laughing stock over here in the UK. Australia has many truths and its time to start finding out....

Below is a link to the "evidence" section of the BBCS (British Big Cat Society), i would be interested to hear how these could not be classed as "hard evidence":

British Big Cats - British Big Cats Society, Prove and Protect, Big Cat Sightings, Official Website

Futhermore, seven dead jungle cats have been found dead, run over or shot, in the past 20 years alone. A puma skull was found in a North Devon farm in 2005 and there are numerous cases of livestock showing the charicteristics of an attack from a big cat etc. ect.

The proof is out there...
 
Futhermore, seven dead jungle cats have been found dead, run over or shot, in the past 20 years alone. A puma skull was found in a North Devon farm in 2005 and there are numerous cases of livestock showing the charicteristics of an attack from a big cat etc. ect.

The proof is out there...

Jungle cats are not Big Cats thou!
 
Below is a link to the "evidence" section of the BBCS (British Big Cat Society), i would be interested to hear how these could not be classed as "hard evidence":

British Big Cats - British Big Cats Society, Prove and Protect, Big Cat Sightings, Official Website

Futhermore, seven dead jungle cats have been found dead, run over or shot, in the past 20 years alone. A puma skull was found in a North Devon farm in 2005 and there are numerous cases of livestock showing the charicteristics of an attack from a big cat etc. ect.

The proof is out there...

This is the type of hocum we are surrounded with here within the UK, certain groups who kid on, fanciful and grandeous hocum. That's not evidence, nor will it ever be. Those like these groups who are not bona-fida business or charities, fail to submit accounts and are seen by the zoological and science community as on the fringes of normal behaviour. These cats have been espapees, from collections or from those who ahve them unlawfully. The skull was not what these groups state in its correct entiriety, and as for animal attacks...so far not one has been proven. Have spent as has many other good people, many times and years over showing such animal deaths are not "big cat" retalted deaths. The bbsc even got mud on their faces a wee while back when they stated "officially we have proof" that such a carcase was torn apart from a big cat. After many days of Forensic testing, it turned out to be from dogs, badgers and even foxes...a normal every day account of such caracases. Even DEFRA and the MOD (whom employ myself and some other qualified and experienced personnel, on a case by case basis), even these official bodies laugh at the absurd behaviour and scarmongering and laughable antics these groups get upto. Sorry, but the evidence from these so called "hard evidence" groups lacks any credable scientific, fact based truth. But then again, these are the groups who say were are invaded by well over 2000 big cats in the UK...what tosh!!:confused:
 
Jungle cats are not Big Cats thou!

True, neither are cougars or lynx for that matter.


This is the type of hocum we are surrounded with here within the UK, certain groups who kid on, fanciful and grandeous hocum. That's not evidence, nor will it ever be. Those like these groups who are not bona-fida business or charities, fail to submit accounts and are seen by the zoological and science community as on the fringes of normal behaviour. These cats have been espapees, from collections or from those who ahve them unlawfully. The skull was not what these groups state in its correct entiriety, and as for animal attacks...so far not one has been proven. Have spent as has many other good people, many times and years over showing such animal deaths are not "big cat" retalted deaths. The bbsc even got mud on their faces a wee while back when they stated "officially we have proof" that such a carcase was torn apart from a big cat. After many days of Forensic testing, it turned out to be from dogs, badgers and even foxes...a normal every day account of such caracases. Even DEFRA and the MOD (whom employ myself and some other qualified and experienced personnel, on a case by case basis), even these official bodies laugh at the absurd behaviour and scarmongering and laughable antics these groups get upto. Sorry, but the evidence from these so called "hard evidence" groups lacks any credable scientific, fact based truth. But then again, these are the groups who say were are invaded by well over 2000 big cats in the UK...what tosh!!:confused:

Clearly, you know more about this than i do. I am merely posting the bigger picture.

It does not matter whether these animals are escapees or not as they have been found in the "wild" making them "wild" big cats, indeed few dispute the fact that the alleged big cat sightings are from anything other than escapees or releases.

Futhermore, using the example of jungle cats, some of these were found as road-kill. If the moment an animal escaped it was killed on the roads, then we would have no large mammal species left - reason would suggest that the chances of them being hit are not that high so it is likely that they had been ekeing out an existance for some time.

If you do not take these forms of evidence as proof, then fine. Every cat shown on that sight (or any other, for that matter) as evidence must have escaped less than a few weeks ago. If this were in the 1980s when the new, stricter laws came out then, yes, i would agree with you but how many places still keep wild, dangerous animals which nobody knows about (remembering that you have to get them from somewhere), escape with regularity (presumably, if you have paid for them, you would not want them to run off so would make their enclosures secure) and are not reported, oh and none of the rest of their animals ever disappear (because not all of these collections will have exclusively cats). And, of course, these places are never discovered despite a steady leak of escapees, now who's talking "hocum".

I was not aware of the BBCS messing up forensics, but that seems to have little bearing on the issue of finding complete carcasses. I will also point out that mistakes happen i.e. that they do not believe that 2000 cats are running wild but half that - quite a significant difference (although clearly still extortionate). So you see, everyone makes mistakes :rolleyes:
 
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