Will dolphins and other marine mammals ever return to the UK?

[Vulpes]

Tusiops truncatus is the same species world wide according to my colleague Dr Margaret Klinowska. But you may have a point regarding the heating of the pool although I have kept bottlenose dolphin in water at 12 Centigrade with out problems they just eat more

Yes they are the same species but they are very different in the way that they are adapted to their environment! Huskys and hairless dogs are the same species too, which one would you leave out in the cold though lol no seriously though, North Atlantic dolphins are much bigger sometimes twice the size and this is to cope with the colder waters up here. As stated above most captive dolphins are descended from animals taken from the Gulf of Mexico. I think that water averages around 20C? UK water temps drop much lower than 12 in winter and I think a pool would drop even lower than the sea without the influence of the Gulf stream.!

I often wondered why a rescue center has not been opened and again I think it comes down to cost! They need large saltwater pools. I think most seal sanctuaries use fresh water? although this will all have to change now with the new standards for marine mammals in captivity. (or will sanctuaries be affected?) I actually think sea lions will become scarce too because of this bill.

I have been having a look at the stranding records and there seem to be very few live strandings of harbor porpoises. They seem to be all dead! Bottle nosed, common, Atlantic white sided seem to be the most common live strandings!

 

[Deviant*Strain]

55F is the heat for Orca and Bottlenosed Dolphins so the water is cooled rather than warmed. No cetaceans in the Uk yet. We just aren't up to scratch in my belief. I don't see why we'd have to be indoor though. That would cost a hell of a lot more than an uncovered (SW or MLF) style facility.

 

[DDcorvus]

interesting that none seemed to alive as at sosdolfijn (the dutch rehab organisation for cetaceans Home - SOS Dolfijn) had 18 porpoises in rehab in 2006 and 9 for 2007 and an average of 10 a year for the last 5 years. I must admit the animals are not just coming from Netherlands but also from Belgium and Germany (and at the moment an animal that got stranded near Calais).

Although their main customers are harbour porpoises they do rehab also other small cetaceans. So for me to see that there are no live strandings of this species in the UK makes me a bit suspecious. I can imagine the initial reasons not to allow a rehab centre, but for sure the UK government could arange this if they really want it. If you look at the Dutch case the rehab foundation is closely linked with Harderwijk and both are benefitting from it. The Dutch Ministry did set some clear regulations to prevent any abuse and these are: Harderwijk is not owning the harbour porpoises on display there and they are not allowed to breed with them (the young of last year was a fortunate accident).

To euthanise any animal that can not be released immediately after stranding is my view a bigger cruelty then setting up a rehab.

 

[DDcorvus]

A small question: would it be feasible to set up a private funded rehab centre?

 

[sealion]

@sealion: The majority of animals kept in most zoos worldwide, also in the ZSL ones, are the ones attractive for the general visitor. That's the reason why you can find meerkats, South American coatis, flamingos and Bennett's wallabies in pretty much every zoo worldwide-even though none of them is "under threat" (beside of being eaten by a straying wild fox or given unhealthy food by visitors). Manatees, especially in comparison to the more agile, active and popular dolphins, are far less attractive for the normal zoo visitor and yet require expensive and roomy husbandry; so only a few zoos keep them.
Some projects were undertaken to save the baiji-but unfortunately, they were not successful.
Don't generalize: a lot of of cetacea species cannot be kept properly in captivity, due to their size and life style; think of the huge baleen whales or open water species such as the Pygmy sperm whale. Yet some species can be kept adequately if given the right husbandry circumstances.

Re ZSL: someone had said a while back that they had got rid of (for example the sealions) in favour of threatened species like I am guessing the pygmy hippos (although I don't really know much about them so I'm not 100%.) It's just what i'd heard elsewhere on here.
Re Generalising: I thought this was obvious without saying, but when I say cetacea in this thread's context I mean the species of this order that are popularly kept in captivity, aka the various types of dolphin and killer whale. (although I do not believe killer whales would really be appropriate for the UK given the high cost of land here!)

 

[sealion]

Surely if the public were really against having any proper "dolphinaria" in the country the strandings that could not be released could be sold(??) (for money to help the centre) or given to parks in Europe.

 

[Devi]

This might seem rather cynical, but I think the public could be won over with a nice reality TV show. Following the building of a rehab centre, the tense rescues, the will they won't they save them, and the sad news that a certain animal couldn't be released. By that point they'd be writing to the daily mail begging some zoo to save its life.

 

[sealion]

This might seem rather cynical, but I think the public could be won over with a nice reality TV show. Following the building of a rehab centre, the tense rescues, the will they won't they save them, and the sad news that a certain animal couldn't be released. By that point they'd be writing to the daily mail begging some zoo to save its life.

Judging by tv influence these days you could well be right! If someone planned it right, that would be a good way of introducing the centre!

 

[John Dineley]

vs0u2086: Personally, I am not an advocate of elephants in captivity (as was mentioned by a previous poster). Yes, they can be trained for blood sampling, ultrasonography, oral examinations, and many more procedures, and they obviously enjoy these interactions, but, in my opinion, captivity does deprive these very social animals of the ability to travel long distances, meet conspecifics, surf the waves, hunt fish, etc. Ok, I may be being a hypocrit in some respects and conveniently forgetting about all other animals in captivity, but if there's not a need for cetaceans in captivity in the UK, I don't think we should bring them back.

Dolphins, like many animals, travel long distances for food or maybe as a part of migration to do with both food and/or breeding; they don't do it for 'fun' but survival they same way elephants travel long distances because they exhausted their available food supplies not because they 'enjoy the walk'

Most small cetaceans, like the bottlenose, will tend to stay in an area provide they have enough available food only move when when supplys start to dwindle. See Randy Well's published research on this matter.

A similar situation is currently taking place with both the California sea-lion who went missing from Pier 39 and growing grey seal population off the Norfolk coast. In both cases animals returned when the food supply returned.

Captive dolphins do or should have con-specifics to interact with. Many of the these animals have been in captivity for many years most are captive breed in Europe and the US. With respect your comments seem rather anthropomorphic.

Your comments on elephants is interesting and no doubt you have read the RSPCA sponsored report on the matter by Clubb and Mason in 2002. Interestingly I noted that some of my work was cited in the research for this paper

But in both the case of elephants and the small cetaceans I see no compelling reason for them not to be held in captive care provided they are given proper care. As regards cetaceans this was the conclusion of Klinowska and Brown's 'Review of Dolphinaria' in as far back as 1986.

To be honest, and it has been mentioned elsewhere in other threads in the site, if one is going to question ethics of keeping large wild animals then a good starting point would be the great ape which are are closest relatives but this doesn't seem to happen and people seem to keep banging on about cetaceans but that is no doubt due to the various 'New Age' myths that these animals have engendered. The basic fact is that the average bottle-nosed dolphin is 'just another zoo animal' which has special requirements in it's care but certainly isn't 'special' in it's self.

 

[Vulpes]

To be honest, and it has been mentioned elsewhere in other threads in the site, if one is going to question ethics of keeping large wild animals then a good starting point would be the great ape which are are closest relatives but this doesn't seem to happen and people seem to keep banging on about cetaceans but that is no doubt due to the various 'New Age' myths that these animals have engendered. The basic fact is that the average bottle-nosed dolphin is 'just another zoo animal' which has special requirements in it's care but certainly isn't 'special' in it's self.

Interestingly above somebody mentioned that TV can change people opinions and I think that TV and the media have a lot to do with how people perceive Dolphins and great apes. Dolphins have always been portrait as having very human like personalities, Flipper etc who was virtually a human trapped in a dolphin suite. He could understand english and was a real hero, on the other hand great apes are considered "silly monkeys" they look like people but thats as far as it goes. I cant think of one Ape in the movies that wasnt portrait as some sort of comedian. despite the two animals being amongst the most intelligent in captivity, they are treated very differently simply on the in which they are perceived!

 

[sealion]

Interestingly above somebody mentioned that TV can change people opinions and I think that TV and the media have a lot to do with how people perceive Dolphins and great apes. Dolphins have always been portrait as having very human like personalities, Flipper etc who was virtually a human trapped in a dolphin suite. He could understand english and was a real hero, on the other hand great apes are considered "silly monkeys" they look like people but thats as far as it goes. I cant think of one Ape in the movies that wasnt portrait as some sort of comedian. despite the two animals being amongst the most intelligent in captivity, they are treated very differently simply on the in which they are perceived!

That is a very interesting comparison! What a world we live in!

 

[Pygathrix]

I cant think of one Ape in the movies that wasnt portrait as some sort of comedian. QUOTE]

Planet of the Apes shows gorillas very negatively, as aggressive and dangerous, although chimps and orangs are portrayed as wise. King Kong is ultimately a sympathetic character although not comic.

A Cold Night's Death (1973) (TV) I saw this years ago and it has a creepy twist (which is not altogether unpredictable) which portrays chimps as anything but comedians.