For my perspective: who are the DEFRA inspectors? What are their qualifications in zoo management and knowledge of zoo design and thereof?
Please elaborate!
Please elaborate!
Woburn Safari Park Woburn Safari Park (Updates)
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It's a bit harsh publishing that report after a new Lion House is well on the way to completion, the sea lions have left, and the Orlitia (which I would guess are the turtles referred to as they been offshow for a while) are back in their exhibit. Most of these issues have been or are being fixed.
Anywho, by sheer coincidence I was at Woburn today - a few collection updates:
- as noted above, the Orlitia borneensis turtles are back on show
- the large snake (python? I honestly can't remember!) has been replaced by a pair of Mangrove Monitors
- there are two very new Red River Hog piglets, bringing Woburn's group to a frankly unnecessary 15!
- a single Iberian Wolf visible in a pen at the edge of the bear/wolf reserve - the Black Bears were very active and playing in the pool but no sign of any Timber Wolves
- African Jungle looking superb, with good numbers of Patas, Barbaries and Drills (they all must be among the biggest groups in the country) and a youngster among the Bongos
- no-show from the Congo Buffalo, oddly
- Sea Lion pool empty with only one fairly small sign pointing out that sea lions are no longer there
Anywho, by sheer coincidence I was at Woburn today - a few collection updates:
- as noted above, the Orlitia borneensis turtles are back on show
- the large snake (python? I honestly can't remember!) has been replaced by a pair of Mangrove Monitors
- there are two very new Red River Hog piglets, bringing Woburn's group to a frankly unnecessary 15!
- a single Iberian Wolf visible in a pen at the edge of the bear/wolf reserve - the Black Bears were very active and playing in the pool but no sign of any Timber Wolves
- African Jungle looking superb, with good numbers of Patas, Barbaries and Drills (they all must be among the biggest groups in the country) and a youngster among the Bongos
- no-show from the Congo Buffalo, oddly
- Sea Lion pool empty with only one fairly small sign pointing out that sea lions are no longer there
Article about the lions I found on BBC news. It s even the top story in the England section.
Woburn Safari Park criticised over 'crowded' lion pen
Woburn Safari Park criticised over 'crowded' lion pen
Woburn
Hi, new on here.
After reading the Times article i felt the need to post. Can't believe what i was reading.
Isn't the whole point that Woburn have kept their animals in such a way for years and are only changing things as they have been forced to? Refering to a previous post, the sealions are still at woburn.
With a press background the Times would not have printed the article without facts.
Have a look on the CAPS website for further details.
Hi, new on here.
After reading the Times article i felt the need to post. Can't believe what i was reading.
Isn't the whole point that Woburn have kept their animals in such a way for years and are only changing things as they have been forced to? Refering to a previous post, the sealions are still at woburn.
With a press background the Times would not have printed the article without facts.
Have a look on the CAPS website for further details.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
I have no idea what your background is, Daven, and I have no wish to be impolite, but really - to suggest that because something is in the press it must be "factual" (whatever that might mean) is naive beyond belief. Your suggestion to look at the balanced, fact-filled CAPS website is one which I'll reject, thanks all the same.
I was there today and it said the sea lion exhibit was empty. It's possible they were inside, of course.
I wouldn't trust the CAPS website for reliable information under any circumstances - I've seen far too many examples of anti-zoo organisations (CAPS included) just bare-faced lying.
I wouldn't trust the CAPS website for reliable information under any circumstances - I've seen far too many examples of anti-zoo organisations (CAPS included) just bare-faced lying.
Woburn
Thankyou for your comments. I am fully supportive of good zoos and thier conservation efforts, however not at the expense of cruelty or neglect.
Woburn provides its' visitors with an experience that does not reflect the truth, i find this distasteful. I would not have visited the park if i was aware of how the lions, tigers and turtles were housed and for how long.
Raja did escape and i am glad i wasn't there with my young family at the time.
Leading vets have condemed conditions and am happy to believe them over PR at Woburn. The fact that woburn are now to improve the situation if far too little far too late.. We should all keep a very open mind about these reports but equally i feel, have a responsibility not to dismiss them.
Thankyou for your comments. I am fully supportive of good zoos and thier conservation efforts, however not at the expense of cruelty or neglect.
Woburn provides its' visitors with an experience that does not reflect the truth, i find this distasteful. I would not have visited the park if i was aware of how the lions, tigers and turtles were housed and for how long.
Raja did escape and i am glad i wasn't there with my young family at the time.
Leading vets have condemed conditions and am happy to believe them over PR at Woburn. The fact that woburn are now to improve the situation if far too little far too late.. We should all keep a very open mind about these reports but equally i feel, have a responsibility not to dismiss them.
there are two very new Red River Hog piglets, bringing Woburn's group to a frankly unnecessary 15!
I think its great they are still breeding the RRHogs- this is easily the biggest UK group currently. A real 'sounder.' But I think its maybe time they moved them into one of the Reserves now- how about the Jungle one with the Monkeys and Bongo?
Why only one Iberian wolf I wonder. Was it from Howletts? Did one die?
The Iberian Wolf pen was wolf-deep in vegetation - could have been another dozen asleep in there and I wouldn't have known!
The hogs would look good in a reserve - I think the issue would be their normal effect on a grassy paddock. You'd have some very muddy monkeys!
The hogs would look good in a reserve - I think the issue would be their normal effect on a grassy paddock. You'd have some very muddy monkeys!
That's why I suggested the jungle reserve- the Monkeys use the trees a lot but I don't know what effect the hogs would have on the overall area and the Bongos. maybe not workable? I'd like to see them out of that 'farm' area though as I think they are a bit wasted as an exhibit in there.
katie.rice
New Member
Woburn: Setting The Record Straight
I am writing this to set the record straight (not to enter into a debate) regarding statements apparently made in my name in the Sunday Times article on 20th June and in support of Woburn Safari Park generally. The information that was given relating to the Sea Lions was taken grossly out of context and is completely misrepresentative. The documents that were quoted without my permission, was an internal report commissioned by the animal department and an email sent to the CEO to encourage a decision on a permanent solution, which was then made.
The aim of the report I was asked to produce was to devise a strategy to eliminate concerns regarding intermittent eye irritation in Woburn’s sea lions which was a particular issue for one of the animals who arrived at Woburn with pre-existing eye damage. Numerous attempts to deal with flare ups had been trialled and a temporary solution was already in place and proved effective in eliminating irritation. Because this involved the complete removal of chlorine in a system not designed to run without chlorine, we felt this could not be a permanent solution. No contractors Woburn engaged to investigate permanent solutions could guarantee eliminating eye irritation particularly considering the issue relating to the sea lion that arrived with eye damage. At all times, Woburn has always remained well within the relevant husbandry guidelines and operated as most zoos in Europe do regarding water quality, however the animal department collectively felt that these guidelines would not guarantee the welfare of the sea lions particularly given their history.
Sea lions are a popular species in zoos and were at Woburn, and Woburn took the decision to send them to a facility with sea water where we felt their welfare would be best guaranteed.
My experience of Woburn was a very positive one and can genuinely say the safari park team is committed to animal welfare.
Both myself and Woburn have been misrepresented in this article. In no way to I support the information presented in the article and will therefore be seeking legal advice.
I am writing this to set the record straight (not to enter into a debate) regarding statements apparently made in my name in the Sunday Times article on 20th June and in support of Woburn Safari Park generally. The information that was given relating to the Sea Lions was taken grossly out of context and is completely misrepresentative. The documents that were quoted without my permission, was an internal report commissioned by the animal department and an email sent to the CEO to encourage a decision on a permanent solution, which was then made.
The aim of the report I was asked to produce was to devise a strategy to eliminate concerns regarding intermittent eye irritation in Woburn’s sea lions which was a particular issue for one of the animals who arrived at Woburn with pre-existing eye damage. Numerous attempts to deal with flare ups had been trialled and a temporary solution was already in place and proved effective in eliminating irritation. Because this involved the complete removal of chlorine in a system not designed to run without chlorine, we felt this could not be a permanent solution. No contractors Woburn engaged to investigate permanent solutions could guarantee eliminating eye irritation particularly considering the issue relating to the sea lion that arrived with eye damage. At all times, Woburn has always remained well within the relevant husbandry guidelines and operated as most zoos in Europe do regarding water quality, however the animal department collectively felt that these guidelines would not guarantee the welfare of the sea lions particularly given their history.
Sea lions are a popular species in zoos and were at Woburn, and Woburn took the decision to send them to a facility with sea water where we felt their welfare would be best guaranteed.
My experience of Woburn was a very positive one and can genuinely say the safari park team is committed to animal welfare.
Both myself and Woburn have been misrepresented in this article. In no way to I support the information presented in the article and will therefore be seeking legal advice.
In my experience the current monkeys in that reserve spend most of their time on the ground (or cars!). None of the three species (Barbary Macaque, Patas, Drill) are particularly aboreal, so they'd be in the way of the mud just as much as the Bongos!
A side pen might work.
And thanks to Ms Rice for the statement above.
Yes, I can foresee the problems, its not the animals themselves but rather the mess they would create wih 'rootling' up the reserve. So perhaps a mini 'hog reserve' within the main jungle area would be the answer.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
This is an excellently bizarre thread - discussion on whether Woburn is an evil institution rubbing shoulders with talk of the numbers of red river hogs.
I just can't let this willingness to believe the propaganda of those with an anti-zoo bias go. So its being printed ina serious newspaper means that it must have some basis in fact does it? With thanks to another poster, take a look at this for an example fo the inanity of the average journalist:
Scorpions, Brazilian aardvarks and wallabies all found living wild in UK, study finds - Telegraph
Add in the balanced comment from Katie Rice above, and you can see this for what it is: unfounded muck raking. I have no special love of Woburn - it's good in parts, not in others - but like all places, it has parts which need improving and I'm pretty sure the people there don't need to be told just what those parts are.
I do not believe everything that is printed in a newspaper, but I do believe that our moderator and longterm member Pertinax has excellent observation qualities and he confirms the part about the very poor lion/tiger housing above.
Plus, the management of Woburn is not even denying any of the accusations. Their answer is that new lion/tiger houses are being built soon, that the sealions are now off-show and will be moved to another facility, and that Raja is well-trained, whatever that may mean.
Plus, the management of Woburn is not even denying any of the accusations. Their answer is that new lion/tiger houses are being built soon, that the sealions are now off-show and will be moved to another facility, and that Raja is well-trained, whatever that may mean.
This has been discussed elsewhere in another thread including my serious doubt about sending these sea lions to Turkey regardless that they would be in 'natural seawater'!!
http://www.zoochat.com/38/woburn-safari-park-sea-lion-exhibit-130408/
I have to restate that chlorination is not a problem for marine mammals when it is appropriately operated; I have used it for for many years including when I ran the sea lion show at Woburn many years ago when we only had the one inside pool.
Sea Lion Show - Woburn Wild Animal Kingdom
With the now two pool complex such as Woburn's and providing you have decent filters this should be even a lesser problem. Who did Woburn consult on this matter?
IMHO most problems with sea lions are due to a fresh water environment and not chlorination when, as stated, it is applied properly.
Marine Animal Welfare - dolphins in captivity
A little odd perhaps, but both subjects are very relevant to the title of the Thread, so its a little bit of interweaving perhaps.
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I do not believe everything that is printed in a newspaper, but I do believe that our moderator and longterm member Pertinax has excellent observation qualities and he confirms the part about the very poor lion/tiger housing above.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.I don't know why but I always tend to look closely at the things you aren't really supposed to notice, such as offshow areas and behind the scenes housing.
At Woburn I also noticed a very decrepit concrete building for the White Rhino, I don't know if its still there or not now. That is not a condemnation of Woburn as a whole though- apart from the abovementioned, most other enclosures looked perfectly adequate as far as I could see.
There is a new Rhino House opened last year -the map leaflet calls it the Savannah House and makes a big thing about how modern it is. It is presumably used by some of the other animals in that reserve as well - the pens were being used to house ostriches on Sunday.
mhale
Well-Known Member
Plans for new penguin exhibit
Woburn's July 2010 newsletter reveals plans for a new penguin exhibit called Penguin Cove:
Woburn Newsletter - July 2010
Woburn's July 2010 newsletter reveals plans for a new penguin exhibit called Penguin Cove:
Woburn Newsletter - July 2010