Wales Ape & Monkey Sanctuary Wolf cubs 'rescue'

[She-wolf]

Although I can understand everyones concerns here .. I have to ask does any of the forum members actually do anything to help .. volunteer their time, hold fundraising events etc ? .. its all to easy to criticise , if you are all genuine in your concerns then do somthing about it, I am sure both Jan and Graham would be only to pleased to receive your help and support . and maybe then with your help could accomodate your suggestions for better enclosures .

 

[johnstoni]

Enrichment costs next to nothing. I'm pleased to see they are now attempting this in earnest. Being strapped for cash isn't an excuse for everything.

 

[She-wolf]

Enrichment costs next to nothing. I'm pleased to see they are now attempting this in earnest. Being strapped for cash isn't an excuse for everything.

What a rediculous comment.. with so many animals to care for of course cash must play a large part .. how else could they be fed and cared for ?
You still havent said what you do to help .. if anything !

 

[johnstoni]

What a rediculous comment.. with so many animals to care for of course cash must play a large part .. how else could they be fed and cared for ?
You still havent said what you do to help .. if anything !

I said being strapped for cash is not an excuse for everything. Anyone, including myself, who has worked with captive primates and provided/designed daily behavioural enrichment devices knows it costs next to nothing. If you are not familiar with behavioural enrichment techniques, I suggest you do some research on the web.

I understand why you are challenging people to 'help' Cefn yr erw, however I would not trust that my time or money would result in improved enclosures for the existing animals, and I base that on the track record this establishment has for taking on new rescue missions before it has, in my opinion as an ex-primate keeper, created acceptable accommodation for its primates. Yes great apes are expensive to house - of all the animals there, I think the chimpanzees AND their housing is the most justifiable. However, when every third-rate pets corner conversion of a zoo up and down the country is able to whip up a better lemur enclosure than something akin to a suburban aviary, I do start to lose sympathy with this place.

I choose to support another UK primate sanctuary, because it takes on what it can handle.

I see your comments as well-meaning, and I admire your spirit, but what you are saying is very dangerous. Start supporting good causes just because they mean to be good, and you end up justifying all sorts of cruelty in the name of charity.

 

[johnstoni]

and yea with the wolves, theyve got three happy wolves there which are bloody stunning, better there than bein put down because of them being to old in germeny, and atthe moment their trying to get wolves from romania from oradea zoo which is a really bad zooo iv eva known

So they're planning on getting a third group of wolves?

I hope the existing wolves (and their "meet the 'wolves' events") are boosting visitor numbers and allowing them to improve conditions there. That would be a logical reason for taking on yet more animals. If the most recent enclosure improvements were on the back of increased revenue due to the wolves being added, then great.

Of course, I realise they need 'saving' as well.

 

[Pertinax]

We closed the other recent Cefn-yr-erw thread because it got very 'overheated'. To keep this one open please avoid swearing in posts and keep all comments within reason.Thanks.

 

[easytigger]

If I were the owners of Cefn-yr-erw I would be watching the news with trepidation and caution, first an owl 'sanctuary' closes due to be being reclassified as a zoo, now a tortoise 'sanctuary' is facing similar problems, what will happen if the same thing should happen in Wales?

 

[Panthera Puss]

It's already licensed as a zoo, I think.

 

[Shorts]

How many other sanctuary's can say the same ? You'll be lucky if you ever even see the owners at most other sanctuary's .

In my experience this is the case with a lot of sanctuaries and (maybe I'm lucky) but I often see the owners.

Incidentally, how many other sanctuaries and zoos (arguably an articifial dividide) have you actually visited? I ask because you seem to have a little tunnel-vision and wondered what benchmarks you're using when pre-judging other places whilst defending Cefn-yr-Erw.

I think you're being a little presumptious of other sanctuaries here, and arguably hypocritical (given you have previously criticised others for making statements without knowing the full facts).

 

[zoogiraffe]

Well said Couchypunk , no doubt you'll get the usual response that you're comments are damaging the sanctuary and " I'll never go there again " .. to me anyone who does not have " passion " in their soul for rescued animals doesnt belong at any sanctuary !
Everyone who knows Jan and Graham knows that the animals are their life , and they will do anything to ensure the animals wellbeing and care , No-one asked them to rescue animals they did it because they cared, I agree we should applaud them and not insult them , they do a job most of us wouldnt even want to do day in day out, never having a day off or a break . How many other sanctuary's can say the same ? You'll be lucky if you ever even see the owners at most other sanctuary's .
And as you quite rightly say regarding Joey its nobody's business but Cefn's !

Actually at the Sanctuary that is nearest to me I always see the owners they are always happy to talk and are in fact very open and honest with the information,that they come out with about the animals in their care even about the deaths of what are popular animals with the visitors to the place,they also would never dream of posting a response to a death in the way that Cefn-yr-Erw.But then everybody is different if we were all Fluffy Bunny Huggers it would be a very boring world!

 

[johnstoni]

.. to me anyone who does not have " passion " in their soul for rescued animals doesnt belong at any sanctuary !

Have a read of some of the comments about the rescued lions at Yorkshire Wildlife Park. Although some people disapproved, I think you'll find a lot of people critical of Wales Ape and Monkey Sanctuary were overwhelmingly supportive of and passionate about those rescued lions.

Everyone who knows Jan and Graham knows that the animals are their life , and they will do anything to ensure the animals wellbeing and care ,

...does this include creating enclosures appropriate to house monkeys? When will they be doing this?

No-one asked them to rescue animals they did it because they cared, I agree we should applaud them and not insult them , they do a job most of us wouldnt even want to do day in day out, never having a day off or a break . How many other sanctuary's can say the same ? You'll be lucky if you ever even see the owners at most other sanctuary's .

...you're right, no-one asked them to do it. They wanted to do it. Nobody owes them any thanks or applause, except perhaps the former 'owners' of the animals resuced by them (including the Petries who, seemingly were unable to contribute money towards relocating Jackie and Jason to Monkeyworld but managed to purchase the Yorkshire Dales Falconry Centre and promptly apply for a Zoo Licence there).

Maybe they should have a day off or take a break. Being a carer is exhausting and you lose perspective if you don't get respite.

And as you quite rightly say regarding Joey its nobody's business but Cefn's !

...um, sorry but actually, unless yr implying they 'owned' this great ape, you are wrong. The local authority, zoo licensing, and the RSPCA cannot be shut out of any animal welfare issue just because a rescue centre want people to butt out because the support turned to criticism and they don't like it anymore. I'm not suggesting there was a welfare issue with this animal, but the principle is the same, if you attempt to rescue animals as controversial as monkeys and apes, you cannot and should not expect to close yourself off from public scrutiny and criticism. I'm serious, embrace it or watch it fail. I hope it succeeds, but the 'save everything now' approach is not working.

 

[Gavin123]

I believe that a critical appraisal of a zoo/sanctuary is a healthy thing, everyone is entitled to an opinion whether positive or not. If the whole world looked at issues through rose tinted spectacles no situation or problem would ever be remedied.

I do not believe this forum to be attacking the sanctuary, indeed if you check any thread about any zoo there will be critism of enclosures and husbandary (e.g. twycross primates).

I support the owners aims and ambition to rescue the animals and can equally understand that it is taken to heart when negative comments are made about the animals care. However this should not be seen as a personnal attack and i get the distinct impression that issues are being enflamed with the owners by people on this forum reporting back to them and frankly misrepresenting the sanctuary by making comments with little thought, structure or clarity.

Therefore lets all agree the work they do is beneficial to the individual animals and the place is run on a shoestring budget and therefore the enclosures may not be wholly desirable, but im sure practical.

Case closed

Draw a line!