I am wondering why Woodland Park Zoo's elephant exhibit is always a target for animal rights people. I really don't get it. I know they think Bamboo needs to go to a sanctuary because of her aggression, and Hansa's death, but this has been going on for a while. Even before Hansa's death it was still a target for the animal-rights groups. It's not fair at all. It does not deserve to be on IDA's list at all. This exhibit is not inadequate at all like 60% of other elephant exhibits. I feel so bad for that zoo. At a fundraiser WPZ had over the summer there were 20 protesters with posters outside the zoo saying "Close Woodland Park Zoo elephant exhibit". It makes me want to throw something at them and it really makes me angry that those ignorant people have to do that. The poor zoo was literally attacked by the IDA after Hansa's death. The zoo was so devastated by the loss of Hansa, but the IDA had zero respect. I am sorry, but that is not even right. If I were a Woodland Park Zoo Elephant Keeper I would go protest at IDA's headquarters saying that they have no respect at all for WPZ who takes great pride in their elephants. It just really not fair. The exhibit is very nice with a large pool. Plus the exhibit is pretty large for 3-4 elephants. 4 for when Hansa was there. It has varied terrain and has grass for them. The saying where IDA says "Elephants in the wild walk 50 miles in a day" is over simplistic. If the elephants get the proper exercise from their keepers they don't need miles of space to walk each day. The keepers ensure the elephants are very healthy. The elephants don't need to go to the private elephant ranch or so-called "sanctuary" when they are healthy and etting proper treatment. I really want to know what the purpose is of the elephant ranch in Tennessee. They don't breed elephants, they really don't do anything for them. They don't promote conservation. So what are they going to do when all the elephants there die. After all, most of the elephants at the ranch are very old. Yes and I am calling it a ranch because that is what it deserve to be called. They just call it a sanctuary so it is more convincing. Overall, I really want to know what people think of WPZ elephant exhibit. What is everyone's opinion on the matter
Woodland Park Zoo Woodland Park Zoo Elephants? Why does the exhibit receive so much criticism
- Thread starter BlackRhino
- Start date
mstickmanp
Well-Known Member
First of all, it would be nice if threads talking about United States zoos would be in the US section, as it's easier for people here in Zoobeat to find specific threads.
Second of all, I don't think zoos really pay attention to the activists, because all they talk is nonsense and if the zoos are paying attention they should stop. Here in Los Angeles, the activist have stopped appearing at the LA zoo since the city stopped listening to them.
Third of all, I think the WPZ is nice, and it's not fair to any zoo if IDA talks bad about their elephant exhibits, as many of the zoos do all they can to make thier elephants' life as good as it can be. As you probably heard before, IDA uses anything they can to attack a zoo even things that are not true, so I don't really pay attention to anything that IDA says.
Second of all, I don't think zoos really pay attention to the activists, because all they talk is nonsense and if the zoos are paying attention they should stop. Here in Los Angeles, the activist have stopped appearing at the LA zoo since the city stopped listening to them.
Third of all, I think the WPZ is nice, and it's not fair to any zoo if IDA talks bad about their elephant exhibits, as many of the zoos do all they can to make thier elephants' life as good as it can be. As you probably heard before, IDA uses anything they can to attack a zoo even things that are not true, so I don't really pay attention to anything that IDA says.
Your right, I think I pay to much attention to IDA. Although I know WPZ did talk of extremists in their press room after Hansa's death. You should check their 2007 archive press room and you will find a press release about how they talk about how unfair the extremists are. The WPZ website address is Woodland Park Zoo, Seattle WA
Sorry for not having this under U.S. threads. I put it under general because I saw other elephant topics here so I figured I would put mine there.
mstickmanp
Well-Known Member
yeah, at first the LA zoo would talk about how the activist were being unfair, but after the zoo found out that all the activist could do is stand outside the zoo just protesting about dumb stuff, then the zoo stopped listening to them. The zoo also had problems with the activist trying to stop the annual Beastly Ball, which is also a fundraiser, but this year there wasn't any this year. I think the LA zoo has finally beat the activist!
It's better if you put a thread in their respective countries and zoos unless they are general to the whole world.
It's better if you put a thread in their respective countries and zoos unless they are general to the whole world.
If you pay attention to the debates that occur with captive elephants in the US, at the end of the year IDA uses their list to compile these debates into a worst list...the true worst exhibits often dont make the list, because it hadnt been publicized in the last year. At the end of this year, you will find Dallas, Baltimore, and Seattle on the list.
As for the Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee...it truly is a sanctuary. Its animals are retired...that is the facility's purpose. They may not promote conservation through captive research and captive breeding...but they do promote animal welfare (and sometimes animal rights) and I am pretty sure the financially support conservation programs. Most of the situations that their elephants came from are rather depressing and many of these elephants are in need of spacious acreage. The sanctuary offers a place for unwanted elephants, and many of these elephants would not do well in another zoo...not all animals are ment for certain situations.
Today's elephants are suffering from years of poor enclosure design...zoos can renovate all of the elephant enclosures, but this will not undo all the damage poor zoo enclosures have done. There is a new revigoration of elephant management and design in the world, and I see the Elephant Sanctuary taking an important role as a retirement facility for older, problematic elephants that need reprive. We dont know it yet, but I feel that the AZA and the Elephant Sanctuary may find common ground and be able to work together...but that is still many years away.
As for the Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee...it truly is a sanctuary. Its animals are retired...that is the facility's purpose. They may not promote conservation through captive research and captive breeding...but they do promote animal welfare (and sometimes animal rights) and I am pretty sure the financially support conservation programs. Most of the situations that their elephants came from are rather depressing and many of these elephants are in need of spacious acreage. The sanctuary offers a place for unwanted elephants, and many of these elephants would not do well in another zoo...not all animals are ment for certain situations.
Today's elephants are suffering from years of poor enclosure design...zoos can renovate all of the elephant enclosures, but this will not undo all the damage poor zoo enclosures have done. There is a new revigoration of elephant management and design in the world, and I see the Elephant Sanctuary taking an important role as a retirement facility for older, problematic elephants that need reprive. We dont know it yet, but I feel that the AZA and the Elephant Sanctuary may find common ground and be able to work together...but that is still many years away.
I know the Woodland Park Zoo very well, and agree with BlackRhino by saying that it is probably one of the better elephant exhibits out there. It's true that it won an AZA exhibit award when it opened in 1989 (not that an award reveals the true depth of an enclosure) and yet almost 20 years later the 1.5 acres doesn't seem big enough to many people. However, 20 years ago it might have been close to the best elephant exhibit in North America, but has since been bypassed by numerous zoos.
Woodland Park's "herd" is the main problem. There is an old African elephant, an Asian elephant, and then Bamboo the Asian elephant that has had a history of problems and has bounced around between zoos. The Point Defiance Zoo "herd" wouldn't accept her, and thus she is still trudging around Seattle's zoo. The signs at these zoos talking about herds of elephants is a little ridiculous when there are only 3 pachyderms in total, and so to ease the pressure on the zoo Woodland Park should really just send the 3 elephants to a sanctuary and toss some Indian rhinos in the exhibit instead. There are plans for an Indian rhino exhibit in the next few years anyway, so why not start relocating the elephants now? It's not like the negative responses from activists will die away completely, and the zoo can come across as good samaritans by sending their elephants away on humanitarian grounds. Hmmm...1.5 acres or 250 acres at PAWS and the Tennessee sanctuary? Hmmm...having 3 elephants that barely coexist or having 15-20 elephants in a genuine herd? I love the Woodland Park Zoo, but at the same time I think that rhinos should replace the elephants. That's not what many others might agree with, but with a hundred times more space and a hundred times more interaction with other elephants it's pretty much a complete no-brainer what the zoo should do.
Woodland Park's "herd" is the main problem. There is an old African elephant, an Asian elephant, and then Bamboo the Asian elephant that has had a history of problems and has bounced around between zoos. The Point Defiance Zoo "herd" wouldn't accept her, and thus she is still trudging around Seattle's zoo. The signs at these zoos talking about herds of elephants is a little ridiculous when there are only 3 pachyderms in total, and so to ease the pressure on the zoo Woodland Park should really just send the 3 elephants to a sanctuary and toss some Indian rhinos in the exhibit instead. There are plans for an Indian rhino exhibit in the next few years anyway, so why not start relocating the elephants now? It's not like the negative responses from activists will die away completely, and the zoo can come across as good samaritans by sending their elephants away on humanitarian grounds. Hmmm...1.5 acres or 250 acres at PAWS and the Tennessee sanctuary? Hmmm...having 3 elephants that barely coexist or having 15-20 elephants in a genuine herd? I love the Woodland Park Zoo, but at the same time I think that rhinos should replace the elephants. That's not what many others might agree with, but with a hundred times more space and a hundred times more interaction with other elephants it's pretty much a complete no-brainer what the zoo should do.
Why should Seattle be on the list? I don't get it!! It has a nice elephant exhibit!! It deserves to be on the best list! There is no reason what so ever for it to be on the list 1 1/2 acres is plenty of space for three elephants if they are getting good exercise with keepers to. I am sorry but Seattle should not be on the list. Dallas thats a different story and I would immediately make in the top 3 worst because the exhibit is god-awful. It is cramped, barren, small and basically is the perfect set-up for a stereotypical elephant. However Seattle being on the list is outrageous. I am surprised you would say a nice enclosure like Seattle would be on the list Okapikpr.
If IDA does put it on the list it does not deserve to be because the exhibit is very nice.
As for the elephant sanctuary, I hope it does someday find common ground with AZA, but until it does I am calling it a ranch.
Space to me can be overrated at times. I think they should build an Indian Rhino enclosure next to the elephant exhibit. I know space is something hugely to consider but exercise is more important. The more exercise the elephants get the less important space becomes. I still love WPZ elephant enclosure & LOVE Watoto (The African one of the trio). There is a chance that the elephants could move to PAWS or Hohenwald and be rejected there to. I think the sanctuary would be good for Bamboo, but Chai and Watoto are fine in the elephant exhibit. If the send these elephants to a sanctuary other zoos may start following the trend, then the zoo population for elephants would decline.
Watoto the African one is 40 years old. Which is a little past middle-aged. I think the zoo-elephant life-expectancy will increase since zoos are getting a better understanding of how to care for elephants. Plus, it not like Watoto is in an inadequete enclosure like Dallas, Memphis, or LA. They have soft mud and grass to walk on instead of the extremely compact dirt like LA
@snowleopard- The exhibit would make a fantastic Indian Rhino exhibit though too if it were cnverted into one. 1 and a half acres is more than enough space for Indian Rhinos.
Watoto the African one is 40 years old. Which is a little past middle-aged. I think the zoo-elephant life-expectancy will increase since zoos are getting a better understanding of how to care for elephants. Plus, it not like Watoto is in an inadequete enclosure like Dallas, Memphis, or LA. They have soft mud and grass to walk on instead of the extremely compact dirt like LA
@snowleopard- The exhibit would make a fantastic Indian Rhino exhibit though too if it were cnverted into one. 1 and a half acres is more than enough space for Indian Rhinos.
Seattle will still be on this year's list because of Chai's miscarriage. IDA's list really has very little to do with zoos' actual elephant exhibits.
Baltimore will be on the list for the addition of new elephants.
Montgomery will be on the list for an elephant death and the births.
And Dallas will be on the list for the Jenny debate.
If you look at last year's list, Disney was listed for sending two older non breeding elephants to Riverbanks;Jax Zoo was listed for trading out elephants that werent getting pregnant, etc. This had nothing to do with the actual enclosure.
This is why Seattle will still make the next list. Its all about publicity, that's what activists survive on.
Baltimore will be on the list for the addition of new elephants.
Montgomery will be on the list for an elephant death and the births.
And Dallas will be on the list for the Jenny debate.
If you look at last year's list, Disney was listed for sending two older non breeding elephants to Riverbanks;Jax Zoo was listed for trading out elephants that werent getting pregnant, etc. This had nothing to do with the actual enclosure.
This is why Seattle will still make the next list. Its all about publicity, that's what activists survive on.