Worst waste of money by zoos

[Zooplantman]

Shouldn't the Indianapolis Orang exhibit not feature in this thread.

I think not. I don't like the concept but from all that I have heard (won't get to see it until next year) it delivers as promised. The monorail part, on the other hand, appears to be much like the one sold to Springfield on the Simpsons

 

[Zooplantman]

I would prefer to see zoos being economical with exhibits, rather than spending millions on enclosures for over-represented species, especially when this leads to a reduction in the number of species kept in the zoo.

I suspect that there is little correlation between amount a zoo spends on a fancy exhibit and number of species the zoo has to display. More exhibits=more staff time, more food prep time, more food purchase expenses, more maintenance time and expense. The two issues can be somewhat connected but they do not strongly influence each other, IMO

 

[Dassie rat]

Hello Zooplantman

There is an increased trend towards mixed-species exhibits, although staff members have to be careful about ensuring that each animal is fed. There is also an increased trend towards walk-through enclosures, which can involve more staff. A few visitors are irresponsible; I once told a visitor to take his finger out of a squirrel monkey's mouth.

 

[NigeW]

While I agree Elephant Odyssey at San Diego provided the elephants a better home, I do NOT agree that it is an area visitors love. I never see people lingering there. When it first opened I overheard a woman saying "there's like no trees," a problem that has not and apparently will not be remedied. For a zoo the caliber of San Diego, EO is an absolute disgrace. I do acknowledge that it provides a needed service by offering an AZA accredited retirement home for aging elephants, but as a member and visitor it is a letdown of mammoth proportions (pun intended).

I have to agree with you here AD. Its big, barren, doesn't really display an awful lot and feels different to and out of place with the rest of the zoo. The horse and donkey context, although I understand it, is lost on most visitors. I don't think anyone comes to San Diego to see domestic horses and donkeys.

@TLDave I can see what Moebelle means about the size, only if talking about geographical area of the site. I hadn't looked it up before I went, but I expected San Diego Zoo to cover more real estate than it does. That said, it makes the most of space and having had only a day there myself, I could easily have filled two.

 

[Mr. Zootycoon]

You cite the case of Lions- similarly many forest-dwelling Primates particularly Gorillas, are given very costly large open outdoor areas, often with water moats seperating them from the public, which they use only a limited amount (unless forced to do so by being shut outside) because they prefer a covered environment.

In case of lions I do agree, but in case of gorillas I don't.
Apenheul Primate Park has one of the largest gorilla islands in Europe,
and the gorillas make great use of it (personal experience).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I do think Wildlands Adventure Zoo Emmen is a waste of money.
They could have done so much more. The way I see it, they
just threw out almost all conservation and education (initially there
weren't even signs!) and focussed solely on recreation.

 

[Pertinax]

Apenheul Primate Park has one of the largest gorilla islands in Europe,
and the gorillas make great use of it (personal experience).

Apenheul's Gorilla island is unusual in be very well wooded, giving them far more overhead cover than is usual in most other similar exhibits.

I think maybe Apenheul's Gorillas are also shut out of their indoor house during good summer weather when most visitors are present. They appeared to be on my only visit there. Can anyone confirm if that is so or not?

 

[jayjds2]

As for US zoos: does anyone else remember when in 2009 LA Zoo tried to get Golden Snub nosed monkeys, built an expensive exhibit (including a Feng Shui makeover) and got-nothing?
At least their Francois' langurs now have a pricey home. ^^
L.A. zoo needs new simians after monkey snub - Technology & science - Science | NBC News
LA zoo wanted Chinese snub-nosed monkeys. Instead it got a Chinese snub | The Independent

To be fair, it's not really a waste (except the Feng Shui part perhaps), as it's an amazing enclosure for the few species it holds. The only thing I would change is that there's only one viewing perspective.

@GraysonDP (post 30 on this thread):
I would be fairly confident in saying that the most popular animals at the zoos are the pandas, without a doubt. There are also koalas, another highly popular animal. While EO was an upgrade in terms of space for the elephants, the actual exhibit quality didn't go up too much.

 

[Batto]

@jayjds2: I disagree; it is a waste, as it will never fulfill its intended purpose (including the feng shui ).

 

[GraysonDP]

To be fair, it's not really a waste (except the Feng Shui part perhaps), as it's an amazing enclosure for the few species it holds. The only thing I would change is that there's only one viewing perspective.

@GraysonDP (post 30 on this thread):
I would be fairly confident in saying that the most popular animals at the zoos are the pandas, without a doubt. There are also koalas, another highly popular animal. While EO was an upgrade in terms of space for the elephants, the actual exhibit quality didn't go up too much.

I disagree. The pool in EO is huge and the new enclosure has significantly more enrichments. Would grass and naturalism have been desired? Yes. I'm not saying EO is amazing but it is a helluva lot better than Hoof and Horn Mesa or Elephant Mesa.

 

[DavidBrown]

@jayjds2: I disagree; it is a waste, as it will never fulfill its intended purpose (including the feng shui ).

It isn't a waste. It is a very attractive primate exhibit and useful addition to the zoo. If zoological relations with China ever thaw and golden monkeys come over they will have a nice home. If it is a permanent langur exhibit then that is good too.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

I think the biggest wastes of money tend to be new enclosures to 'conserve' endangered animals that are over-represented in zoos and are not part of a reintroduction programme. For these animals, it would be spend millions conserving the species in the wild.
Another waste of money tends to involve designers who know little about the behaviour of the species concerned. A classic example are massive lion enclosures. Wild lions tend to spend 20 hours a day resting and are most active during the night when they hunt. Captive lions tend to be most active when the zoo is closed and they don't need to hunt at all, so don't need a massive enclosure. Many visitors don't realise this, but I think they would prefer to see lions in a smaller enclosure, rather than seeing resting lions from a long distance.
I remember reading that the Highland Wildlife Park spent £85 developing an enclosure for Pallas's cats. I would prefer to see zoos being economical with exhibits, rather than spending millions on enclosures for over-represented species, especially when this leads to a reduction in the number of species kept in the zoo.

This is important point of view, Dassie rat. I agree with you. Next such project would be lion exhibit at Beauval zoo in France - huge lion enclosure. Zoos often spend a lot of money for species over-represented in zoos. Also lion exhibit complex in Zagreb zoo in Croatia is such thing - overspending for lions.

 

[Batto]

It isn't a waste. It is a very attractive primate exhibit and useful addition to the zoo. If zoological relations with China ever thaw and golden monkeys come over they will have a nice home. If it is a permanent langur exhibit then that is good too.

Once again: I disagree. If you spend 7,4 million USD as well as several thousands on PR rubbish such as “Feng shui“ to promote this as a one-of-kind attraction and then can’t and (unless you’re hopelessly optimistic regarding Chinese business mentality) never will use it for its intended purpose, then it IS a waste of money. I’ve seen the exhibit in person and wasn’t too smitten by it, either, Francois’ langurs or not.

 

[DavidBrown]

Once again: I disagree. If you spend 7,4 million USD as well as several thousands on PR rubbish such as “Feng shui“ to promote this as a one-of-kind attraction and then can’t and (unless you’re hopelessly optimistic regarding Chinese business mentality) never will use it for its intended purpose, then it IS a waste of money. I’ve seen the exhibit in person and wasn’t too smitten by it, either, Francois’ langurs or not.

It was built as a primate exhibit, not just as a golden monkey exhibit as you are portraying it. So yes, it is being used for its intended purpose.

 

[Batto]

It was built as a primate exhibit, not just as a golden monkey exhibit as you are portraying it. So yes, it is being used for its intended purpose.

As far as I know, it was specifically built to house Golden snub-nosed monkeys - hence the Feng shui mumbo jambo (that even you cannot deny was a waste of money in itself). So no, it’s not.
Our conversation starts to resemble a certain geometric form: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...gments.svg/2000px-Circle-withsegments.svg.png

 

[Zooplantman]

As far as I know, it was specifically built to house Golden snub-nosed monkeys - hence the Feng shui mumbo jambo (that even you cannot deny was a waste of money in itself).

Or........ were the golden monkeys cancelled because the zoo did not comply with the feng shui advice ?!?!?!?!?!?!

It seems that Ms. Mainini, who completed her report in April of 2003, warned that construction should begin by February of 2004, which, according to the newspaper, was “a crucial date in the feng shui calendar.”

“A later date,” the report apparently noted, “could have a very significant effect on the building’s energy.

That target date was missed.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-furniture-for-a-trio-of-golden-monkeys/?_r=0

 

[DavidBrown]

Or........ were the golden monkeys cancelled because the zoo did not comply with the feng shui advice ?!?!?!?!?!?!


http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-furniture-for-a-trio-of-golden-monkeys/?_r=0

The golden monkeys were cancelled because the Chinese and American governments got into a diplomatic snit about the Dalai Lama visiting Washington is what was explained to me.

It resulted in a very nice primate enclosure which is probably the best monkey exhibit at the zoo and not a waste of money.

 

[Dassie rat]

Perhaps Donald Trump got the hump because the Dalai Lama wanted to get into the USA via Mexico.

 

[Batto]

It resulted in a very nice primate enclosure which is probably the best monkey exhibit at the zoo and not a waste of money.

How peculiar; I was told that mutual monetary disagreement was the main issue...
And as previously explained, given the amount of money spent on “essential“ aspects such as Asian ornaments and a PR campaign for something that never became reality (you know how many great conservation projects could be financed with 7.4 million USD? Quite a few...) , it was a waste of money (on an at best decent exhibit), no matter how often you will negate it. So, shall we continue with this pointless conversation of mutual disagreement?
And one last piece of advice:
This is a Golden monkey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_monkey#/media/File:Golden_monkey.JPG
And this is a Golden snub-nosed monkey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gol...-nosed_Monkeys,_Qinling_Mountains_-_China.jpg
Both monkeys, yet different kinds of “gold“. The latter was the bone of contention, btw.
You’re welcome.^^

 

[DavidBrown]

How peculiar; I was told that mutual monetary disagreement was the main issue...
And as previously explained, given the amount of money spent on “essential“ aspects such as Asian ornaments and a PR campaign for something that never became reality (you know how many great conservation projects could be financed with 7.4 million USD? Quite a few...) , it was a waste of money (on an at best decent exhibit), no matter how often you will negate it. So, shall we continue with this pointless conversation of mutual disagreement?
And one last piece of advice:
This is a Golden monkey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_monkey#/media/File:Golden_monkey.JPG
And this is a Golden snub-nosed monkey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gol...-nosed_Monkeys,_Qinling_Mountains_-_China.jpg
Both monkeys, yet different kinds of “gold“. The latter was the bone of contention, btw.
You’re welcome.^^

There was never really a PR campaign because the monkeys never arrived. The Asian ornamentation is because it is an Asian primate exhibit.
The reason for the monkeys never arriving was never discussed in public. It may have involved money and/or it may have involved international politics; these are not mutually exclusive explanations.

There is really no call for rudeness, Batto.

 

[Batto]

I was lucky to see what the PR department had prepared; lovely items among them. And from what I’ve heard, money was the key issue.
Ornaments, Asian or not, can be subtle-and cost-effective (like Zlin zoo’s Chinese garden).
And seriously: what was “rude“ about my previous replies to your stubbornness?