Worst Zoos

You're right... little common ground here

"Look at how healthy (or not) the animals are, both physically and mentally."

I've not visited either of those zoo's but am of the opinion that a hand reared animal is unlikely to be as mentally healthy as a parent reared one.

(snippage)

I would agree up to a point, and with certain animals (raptors, for one -- you really don't want to do a "social imprint" with them).

However, I cannot argue with the evidence of my eyes and other senses. The Alabama Gulf Coast Zoo's tigers are among the healthiest and liveliest I've seen in ANY facility, in all the years I've been visiting such.

I may not have been clear enough when I said "hand raised" or "hand reared." I suspect what may be happening is the cubs, once born, are initially reared by their natural parents for a few weeks or months to avoid imprinting on humans. That's when they begin acclimation to human presence. I will contact the zoo to get the full story, and report back.

You can tell me I'm out of my gourd as much as you like but I've seen a lot of hand reared animals. I would also suggest that animals being very focused on people is perhaps something to be viewed as unnatural as opposed to a virtue.

Now I know I've been misunderstood. I apologize for not expressing myself more clearly.

I don't like to see any animal (outside, perhaps, of a domestic pet) utterly focused on any human. What I do like to see is an animal choosing to spend time with a human, if human and animal are both willing.

Practices such as hand rearing can help with that, if done properly, and not at all to the detriment of the animal's health. This is why I object to AZA's blanket prohibition against any form of it.

I love seeing an animal sitting very close to me and totally ignoring me. It makes it feel more "real" I don't know how to explain it, and I'm sure it's a feeling near enough 100% of zoo visitors don't share with me.

I'm actually more familiar with that sensation than you may realize. As an apprentice falconer, I find that whatever bird I have on my glove is (usually) far more curious about what's going on around them than they are in what I'm doing. And yes, it feels exceedingly "real" as you so accurately put it.

However, there has to exist some initial trust. Being a part of an animal's life as they're growing up is a good way to start that bond growing as well.

But yeah with the handrearing we'll have to agree to disagree. No matter how much money it raises for the zoo and good enclosures it doesn't make up for depriving an animal of the social stimulus of being brought up by their own species.

What if the animal in question is an orphan? Or what if the animal's parents have, for whatever reason, rejected them? Would you rather see the critter involved die, or be permanently alone, than have at least some chance at a reasonably good life? I know which way I'd go, faced with a decision like that.

Again, I need to get the full story from the zoo of how they're doing this. I will say the cubs my wife and I encountered did not act at all like they were human-imprinted, despite being hand-reared for part of their lives. They were just as rowdy and playful with each other as they were with their human attendants. We were just another part of their environment, albeit a temporary one.

You're right -- I think we are going to agree to disagree, but not quite in the way you may have expected.

Happy travels.
 
wow....place sounds miserable....isnt there some organization that can do something about such a place
 
There are probably twice as many bad zoos as there are good ones in the world, and even several notable zoological parks have their share of atrociously outdated enclosures. Guzoo in the Province of Alberta (Canada) is one that has a number of photos in the ZooChat gallery, but there are horrendous roadside zoos all over the world that should literally be bulldozed into oblivion.

agreed snowleopard , the roadsides should be bulldozed into oblivion preferably with their owners too
 
I have made some suggestions here at ZooChat that the worst forms of human cruelty towards animals in our contemporary world may well occur in Asia, however despicably bad the (for instance) North American "road side zoos" undoubtably seem to be, but have been met with much criticism (even warnings from the moderators), basically saying that such suggestions might be "racist". Since the "R-word" is the most dreaded word in Western Society I tend to keep my mouth shut...
 
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