Slimbridge WWT WWT centres culling wildlife
- Thread starter Jana
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sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
CAPS don't need anything to have been done to them to go on the attack - they're simply focused on eliminating all human-animal contact. Their website calls for a "stop [to] the exploitation of animals in entertainment, particularly in circuses, zoos and the exotic pet trade". I don't think they are dangerous, really, because they are seen as a bunch of cranks - but they are capable of manipulating the media, as in this attack on the WWT, and when they do so the impact can be damaging.
I would be very wary of describing C.A.P.S. as nothing more than a bunch of cranks, it was this attitude that has almost finished the animal circus in the U.K., indeed A.D.I. have also been refered to as nothing but a bunch of cranks, they later went on to haul well known circus trainers through the courts, have them successfully prosecuted and literaly finish them off in business. I do not agree with everything that C.A.P.S. state, yes they can at times be extreme, in their highlighting of the birds pinioning however, I would say the have in this case done me a favour, as before reading about this practice I had not realy given it any thought, and yes, in this I agree with C.A.P.S., I think it is wrong to mutilate these birds, I also disagree with the shooting of wildfowl by the W.W.T. I think the time has come for the zoo fraternity to realise that these people are not going to go away, they are like bull dogs when they get their teeth into something, they do not let go, this can be remedied by giving them no ammunition and run a clean show, instead of just keeping quiet and say nothing when the "cranks" catch them with their pants down.
The WWT statement refers to the reserve areas of their centres, which are for wild birds, particularly rare or declining species including sand martins, kingfishers and avocets, as well as breeding and wintering waterfowl. Building aviaries for their captive stock would not change the situation at all.
All nature reserves have to be prepared to control pest species (animal and vegetable), otherwise they would all become rat-infested scrub within a generation.
Alan
As Alan has noted the techniques referred to are used for reserve management, not defending captive stock, and as such is part of the process of conservation of the UK's dwindling wildlife.
The WWT's response to the article is here: Wildfowl & Wetlands Trust (WWT) - Sunday Express response
The WWT continue to have my full support, and have done and continue to do far more good for the animal world than CAPS ever will.
Maguari,
Agreed. I just feel zoos need to engage the fallacies and inaccuracies in the stories spread by CAPS or BFF and animal welfarist far more decisively than has been done to date. It is perhaps right to think they are a small horde, but their media play and reach is far the greater and we need to be clear from the zoo world perspective what they say is either not correct, too B/W or just blatantly untrue and to do so in the media with clarity and determination and always with the truth / reality in mind and word.
Agreed. I just feel zoos need to engage the fallacies and inaccuracies in the stories spread by CAPS or BFF and animal welfarist far more decisively than has been done to date. It is perhaps right to think they are a small horde, but their media play and reach is far the greater and we need to be clear from the zoo world perspective what they say is either not correct, too B/W or just blatantly untrue and to do so in the media with clarity and determination and always with the truth / reality in mind and word.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
I have no time for CAPS, but Jana does have a point. Pinioning waterfowl and keeping them on open water is not helping this situation.
Yes, I would love to see unpinioned birds and netted aviaries.
Part of the problem of course is that CAPS, Animal Aid, PETA etc are funded by donations, they need to keep up the attack to get the money, they are in most cases not charities but business's. So they have all the time in the world to go around picking fault and finding causes. On the other hand the societies they attack have to raise their own money and haven't the time just to counter the constant assaults.
The RSPB etc do management control of their reserves, but won't allow others to try and do the same, magpies etc being a prime example.
I remember seeing pictures of a well know music star and his actress wife -who are supporters of PETA -with their children having pony rides, something PETA wouldn't approve of, but possibly due to the high profile of their supporters said PETA didn't complain to the press about the use of animals as entertainment.
I enclose an old clipping from about 10 years or so ago it makes interesting reading from the RSPCA, this is before the new animal welfare bill was passed by the last government to say thank you for the £1m donation they received from animal rights groups.
The RSPB etc do management control of their reserves, but won't allow others to try and do the same, magpies etc being a prime example.
I remember seeing pictures of a well know music star and his actress wife -who are supporters of PETA -with their children having pony rides, something PETA wouldn't approve of, but possibly due to the high profile of their supporters said PETA didn't complain to the press about the use of animals as entertainment.
I enclose an old clipping from about 10 years or so ago it makes interesting reading from the RSPCA, this is before the new animal welfare bill was passed by the last government to say thank you for the £1m donation they received from animal rights groups.
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Maisie
Well-Known Member
I can't help thinking the RSPCA have a point in that clipping. I keep birds myself and I hate seeing photographs of people's "bird rooms" where they're effectively collecting birds like Pokemon just for collection's sake rather than to have any sort of interaction or relationship with the birds - rows of tiny cages with a couple of uniform plastic perches (very bad for birds' feet) and a pot or 2 of bird seed and water. No enrichment, no stimulation, no natural foraging ability.
I agree with you massie, birds shouldn't be kept as living stamp collections that of course is the cruelty (hook?) aspect that that gets publicity and leads to people donating money.
They don't realise that allowing children access to animals at school or on school visits is also part of the agenda, that is the worrying part for me at least. what is the next step for the RSPCC is to stopping them keeping them at home?
They don't realise that allowing children access to animals at school or on school visits is also part of the agenda, that is the worrying part for me at least. what is the next step for the RSPCC is to stopping them keeping them at home?
Is pinioning done for any reason other than being cheaper than building aviaries? Because if not then surely it's against the whole point of the world wildlife trust as a caring protective organisation.
I definitely don't agree with shooting anything unless it is literally the last choice, if it isn't then they really shouldn't.
I definitely don't agree with shooting anything unless it is literally the last choice, if it isn't then they really shouldn't.
WWT is the Wildfowl and Wetland Trust.
Peter Scott, who started the Trust, first became interested in wildfowling (ie shooting ducks and geese) over 80 years ago. When he 'pricked' a bird by shooting it in the wing, he didn't finish it off, he kept it and built up a collection of injured birds, which became the foundation of the Trust's collections after he decided to give up shooting.
He did not start the practice of pinioning which has been done for many years. The vast majority of zoos and private collections have had no other practical way of keeping waterfowl and large birds like cranes until recently.
Modern technology makes large aviaries cheaper and much of the breeding stock at Slimbridge is housed in aviaries, but these are off-show. Most of the birds on-show are still pinioned, and of course the procedure can't be undone, so that situation cannot change for many years.
Your last paragraph summarises the WWT position admirably.
Alan
So, is it the case that pinioning is no longer done and they are just waiting for those who were done in the past to live out their lives?
ETA - I did know what the wwt was, my brain is not working properly in this heat apparently! I've not really got huge amounts of knowledge on birds, but I did visit slimbridge ages ago, and they were very much about conservation and wild british birds, so just a bit confused about the shooting wild british birds thing.
WWT still pinions newly hatched chicks and even promotes this technique to other zoos.
There are countries like Germany or Denmark where pinioning is prohibited for all zoo and private birds by law. It is even prohibited to import pinioned birds so that people can´t try to go around the law. And then there are countries like UK or Czech republic where pinioning in first 2 or 3 days after hatching is still allowed, if they deem it is the best option.
There is no problem with culling invasive/feral/escaped animals in or near nature reserves, if they are detrimental to endangered native species, or removing some ill animals with suspected infection rom the population.
But this part of the WWT statement raises eyesbrow:
"Secondly we have developed a range of special feeders designed to allow our collection birds to feed but not these other species. And we can actively discourage these other species by scaring, using flags and noises or special acoustic scarers. Moving them on is the main way we reduce the number of birds at risk of becoming too numerous and spreading infection, competing for nest sites and predating on our captive birds."
WWT implicates here that they indeed cull wild british birds if they don´t scare them away successfully in other ways. Wild birds (moorhens & Co.) that have found all the easy food primarily provided for pinioned captive stock living in open pens. That leads to a population explosion that WWT then needs to target, including culling and destroying of eggs.
WWT is indeed highly admirable organisation with commendable aims and results and worth of continuing support. But it doesn´t mean they are extempt from critic, I think.
Their position as one of the leading waterfowl breeders gives them informal influence to impact decisions of many other zoos in this matter too. If WWT changed their policy, it is reasonable to expect some other zoos within the UK and abroad would follow soon or later.
There are countries like Germany or Denmark where pinioning is prohibited for all zoo and private birds by law. It is even prohibited to import pinioned birds so that people can´t try to go around the law. And then there are countries like UK or Czech republic where pinioning in first 2 or 3 days after hatching is still allowed, if they deem it is the best option.
There is no problem with culling invasive/feral/escaped animals in or near nature reserves, if they are detrimental to endangered native species, or removing some ill animals with suspected infection rom the population.
But this part of the WWT statement raises eyesbrow:
"Secondly we have developed a range of special feeders designed to allow our collection birds to feed but not these other species. And we can actively discourage these other species by scaring, using flags and noises or special acoustic scarers. Moving them on is the main way we reduce the number of birds at risk of becoming too numerous and spreading infection, competing for nest sites and predating on our captive birds."
WWT implicates here that they indeed cull wild british birds if they don´t scare them away successfully in other ways. Wild birds (moorhens & Co.) that have found all the easy food primarily provided for pinioned captive stock living in open pens. That leads to a population explosion that WWT then needs to target, including culling and destroying of eggs.
WWT is indeed highly admirable organisation with commendable aims and results and worth of continuing support. But it doesn´t mean they are extempt from critic, I think.
Their position as one of the leading waterfowl breeders gives them informal influence to impact decisions of many other zoos in this matter too. If WWT changed their policy, it is reasonable to expect some other zoos within the UK and abroad would follow soon or later.