Dolfinarium Harderwijk Young orca rescued

[John Dineley]

"The Orca Coalition", which consists of a group of people that want Morgan released in the wild, have succesfully appealed for Morgan to stay in the Netherlands for now.

The judge ruled that the approval of moving Morgan to Teneriffe by the Dutch gouvernment was given too hastily and that they seriously need to reconsider the options before handing out any approval to move her..

So a bunch of half-witted idiots have convinced a judge with no scientific training that it a good idea to leave this animal where it is so they can lobby to get their hands on her. Wonderful. The lunatics have taken over the asylum. And I make NO apologies for calling the Orca Coalition half-wits because that what they are - animal-rights activists with no thought for this animals actual welfare. They just want to get the hands on this animal to prove some form of sick stunt. This whole business just makes me angry.

 

[jwer]

So a bunch of half-witted idiots have convinced a judge with no scientific training that it a good idea to leave this animal where it is so they can lobby to get their hands on her. Wonderful. The lunatics have taken over the asylum. And I make NO apologies for calling the Orca Coalition half-wits because that what they are - animal-rights activists with no thought for this animals actual welfare. They just want to get the hands on this animal to prove some form of sick stunt. This whole business just makes me angry.

If you mean all this, then I'm afraid your just as much a lunatic as they are...

Moving her to Loro Parque is the best (most secure) way to keep her alive, but weither or not being alive in a sterile pool is in the better interest for this (if any) specificic free-roaming animal is in my mind pretty much open for debate.

I don't agree with the Orca Coalition but at least I can understand why they are doing this. If you can't understand, you are just as short-sighted as they are.

Democracy is a pain when other people have different opinions huh?

 

[DDcorvus]

To be exact the court ruled that the Ministry should consider all options and that the final decision on what will happen with her should be taken by the Ministry and not by the Dolphinarium (The decision that Morgan should go to Tenerife was taken by them and the court ruled that this is not the right procedure, which in my view is very valid although they do have more knowledge on orcas I would not consider them the most objective stakeholder in deciding on her future).

 

[Chlidonias]

So a bunch of half-witted idiots have convinced a judge with no scientific training that it a good idea to leave this animal where it is so they can lobby to get their hands on her. Wonderful. The lunatics have taken over the asylum. And I make NO apologies for calling the Orca Coalition half-wits because that what they are - animal-rights activists with no thought for this animals actual welfare. They just want to get the hands on this animal to prove some form of sick stunt. This whole business just makes me angry.

I'm not sure Ingrid Visser could be described as either a "half-wit" or an "animal-rights activist".....

 

[johnstoni.]

Antibes have a breeding group of Icelandic orca. However, I dislike intensely their decision to send away their first successful birth, Shouka, to live in solitary at Six Flags in 2006. I would not like to see additional whales sent to Antibes given they are prepared to send animals to live alone elsewhere. I am not aware whether there was a financial incentive for sending those individuals to the destinations selected for them. If Morgan bred, I would not trust Antibes to keep the offspring.

Loro Parque do not own their orcas, sending Morgan there would mean handing her over to Sea World. I do not agree with many of the orca moves Sea World has made, particularly the ages at which some captive-born animals are removed from their parents. As someone else has pointed out, the orcas as Loro Parque arrived as immature, captive-born animals, with no adults to lead their group, and the first surviving calf has had to be hand-reared. I'm not sure another young animal would be a good move.

It astounds me how many people seem willing to overlook the statistics on premature deaths, miscarriages, and infant mortality, not to mention incidents involving trainers, in order to condemn releases into the wild. Just posting a link to some information about Keiko isn't enough. To get an animal to the point where it is healthy and catching live fish in a sea-pen, taking journeys into the ocean and interacting with wild orca is, to me, a massive achievement in itself. If Morgan moves to another facility and dies in a few years, people who vociferously opposed a release will not make a sound. Captivity has been very much a process of trial and error, why not the same for developing a protocol for marine mammal rescues? Especially when success would mean a far, far, richer and meaningful existence than could ever be achieved in even the most successful captive groups?

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

It is just the pure ratio involved in and criteria incumbent upon reintroduction exercise that FULLY preclude a SUCCESSFUL release to the wild.

The Keiko release case is just one sad unacceptable example what unscientific moralities and emotions can do to a reintroduction project. All the criteria go out the window: no sound planning nor following any reintroduction guidelines. The PETA ilk and general public opinion are the last folk QUALIFIED to make informed judgements on this.

 

[John Dineley]

I'm not sure Ingrid Visser could be described as either a "half-wit" or an "animal-rights activist".....

I just watched her in the BBC documentary "The Women Who Swims With Killer Whales". Enough said

On a more serious note I would say that my comments were directed at the animal-rights groups involved. However I was rather unimpressed with Dr Visser in the above documentary. And clearly she has absolutely no understanding of the realities of the reintroduction of cetaceans. Just because she has a PhD and has studied the rather unique group of orcas in New Zealand doesn't mean she is right as regards Morgan's welfare.

Moreover, she had the cheek to criticise Harderwijk in a self-published report as to Morgan's welfare when she herself blocked her move via the Dutch courts to a bigger and better facility and the company of other orca. Silly comments that the tank Morgan is kept in at Harderwijk is cramped (this tank was never designed for the long-term holding of any orca) and that the animal displays stereotypical behaviour (which in videos I have seen she isn't) are hypercritical to say the least.

 

[John Dineley]

It astounds me how many people seem willing to overlook the statistics on premature deaths, miscarriages, and infant mortality, not to mention incidents involving trainers, in order to condemn releases into the wild. Just posting a link to some information about Keiko isn't enough. To get an animal to the point where it is healthy and catching live fish in a sea-pen, taking journeys into the ocean and interacting with wild orca is, to me, a massive achievement in itself. If Morgan moves to another facility and dies in a few years, people who vociferously opposed a release will not make a sound.

I think posting a link to a scientific evaluation of "Keiko" release project is certainly enough. The bottom line was that he did not integrate with wild orcas and that he ended up seeking human company and begging for food. The whole exercise had little to do with the welfare of the animal but the ideological desires of the animal-rights groups involved and their pathological dislike of cetaceans in captivity. There have been only a few well conducted studies on the release of former captive cetaceans and it appears that releasing long-term captive animals back to the wild is very problematic.

Releasing Captives Back to the Wild

As to the comments regarding mortality rates it should be noted that the infant mortality rates for captive orca seem much the same as wild animals. As to adult mortality rates the problem remains of accurate data. Pooling the data of every single animal that died in captivity since the first attempts to keep orcas in captivity in the early 1960's certainly works well for those promoting that these animals "die young" in captivity but as a judgement of the current state of these captive populations it lacks any such rigour. The only real scientific evaluation we have on this issue was published in 1995 (Small and DeMaster). A good review of the issue of cetacean captive survival rates can be found HERE.

I don't think anyone overlooks the problems with keeping large cetaceans in captivity but that doesn't mean that a sound judgement has to be made regarding a very young orca rescued over a year ago with absolutely no accurate idea of it's family being a good candidate for a release project. And referring back to "Keiko" it was known more or less exactly where this animal was caught and that project still failed.

Yes, it is possible that Morgan may die in captivity in few years but that's just as likely if she was placed in this proposed release project. Both have risks and repercussions on those taking such actions.

 

[John Dineley]

Antibes have a breeding group of Icelandic orca. However, I dislike intensely their decision to send away their first successful birth, Shouka, to live in solitary at Six Flags in 2006. I would not like to see additional whales sent to Antibes given they are prepared to send animals to live alone elsewhere. I am not aware whether there was a financial incentive for sending those individuals to the destinations selected for them. If Morgan bred, I would not trust Antibes to keep the offspring. Loro Parque do not own their orcas, sending Morgan there would mean handing her over to Sea World.

One solution would be to have Morgan held in trust by an external party very much the situation with the old circus elephant "Anne". Neither the park that cares for her or the animal-rights groups who campaigned for retirement have any final say in her welfare.

 

[Johnny]

Moreover, she had the cheek to criticise Harderwijk in a self-published report as to Morgan's welfare when she herself blocked her move via the Dutch courts to a bigger and better facility and the company of other orca. Silly comments that the tank Morgan is kept in at Harderwijk is cramped (this tank was never designed for the long-term holding of any orca) and that the animal displays stereotypical behaviour (which in videos I have seen she isn't) are hypercritical to say the least.

Harderwijk does not want the situation as it is at the moment. They want the best for the rescued animal. And yes, she is alone, in a cramped tank, and looking for contact and attention. That's why harderwijk wants to move her as quickly as possible. The tank was simply a temporary solution, meant to get her back on her feet ( or flippers ) as soon as possible. But thanks to the left-wing lunatics this situation will have to endure, while she could have been moved to a location with more space and company.

 

[johnstoni.]

But thanks to the left-wing lunatics this situation will have to endure, while she could have been moved to a location with more space and company.

I think the concept of left-right is a false one, and not useful here. There are plenty of people who consider themselves 'right-wing', who do not approve of cetaceans in captivity.

 

[johnstoni.]

One solution would be to have Morgan held in trust by an external party very much the situation with the old circus elephant "Anne". Neither the park that cares for her or the animal-rights groups who campaigned for retirement have any final say in her welfare.

I completely agree with this.

In terms of captive mortality rates - I agree that going back to the 1960s to include that date does skew the results, and that both adult longevity, stillbirths and calf mortality are improving. However, I would still argue that the risks orca face in the wild are significantly more diverse and higher than in captivity, it is not therefore useful to me to compare calf mortality rates as the causes for captive and wild calf mortality are not always the same.

I am not against orca being held in captivity, but until we solve the need for captive orca to have holes drilled in their teeth and regular subsequent flushing, and orca are kept in more stimulating aquaria in natural seawater (remember Oregon?) without the stadium acoustics and circus-style presentation, until those institutions holding them do not exchange money or hold on to animals better suited to alternative facilities, I am still willing to support perseverance for a robust and sound protocol for full or partial wild release of captive or rescued orca.

I just don't think there is a single facility suitable for Morgan (not just in terms of the facility, but the current numbers/capacity/group structures at existing sites), but I fear there will be many wanting to acquire her.

 

[TARZAN]

I think the concept of left-right is a false one, and not useful here. There are plenty of people who consider themselves 'right-wing', who do not approve of cetaceans in captivity.

I would say that is fair comment, as is the case here in the U.K., it is a conservative M.P., Mr. Pritchard who is protesting most strongly about the present government's refusal to ban wild animals from the travelling circus, despite being offered a higher position from the prime minister as a reward for keeping his mouth shut,

 

[John Dineley]

I am not against orca being held in captivity, but until we solve the need for captive orca to have holes drilled in their teeth and regular subsequent flushing, and orca are kept in more stimulating aquaria in natural seawater (remember Oregon?) without the stadium acoustics and circus-style presentation, until those institutions holding them do not exchange money or hold on to animals better suited to alternative facilities, I am still willing to support perseverance for a robust and sound protocol for full or partial wild release of captive or rescued orca.

Of the 12 facilities holding orca 7 house them in sea water the others in man-made salt water. Although, I suspect this comment may be relating to the water treatment methods such as chlorination and ozone.

If so, there is absolutely no evidence that these processes are harmful if applied properly; I have researched this issue for a number of years as did my colleague Dr Margaret Klinowska in 1985 when undertaking the UK government Review of Dolphinaria. As a matter of fact Oregon did filter Keiko's pool and ozone was used as a disinfection; they didn't use chlorination as they wanted to introduced live fish into Keiko's pool.

I do have some sympathy for the comment regarding nature of some shows but that is more to do with aesthetics than whether this is actually a welfare issue.

As the issue of the teeth, certainly the “pulpotomies" that you are referring to have taken place on a number of animals at Sea World but not aware this being a wide spread practice. But unfortunately like so many other things the animal-rights industry do like to highlight it in the various publications. One would hope that with the increasing knowledge gained in captive husbandry with this species these kind of issues will not occur in the future.

 

[John Dineley]

I would say that is fair comment, as is the case here in the U.K., it is a conservative M.P., Mr. Pritchard who is protesting most strongly about the present government's refusal to ban wild animals from the travelling circus, despite being offered a higher position from the prime minister as a reward for keeping his mouth shut,

Indeed. This was actually discussed in another animal forum I am involved with a long with the difference between 'animal-rights' and 'animal welfare' which are very different issues all together.

 

[sealion]

The fact that these activists have fought to keep her at Harderwijk in a smaller pool with less company illustrates their disregard for the actual welfare of Morgan.

It seems to me that Ingrid doesn't mind because she get's her own "orca fix" by jumping in the water with her beloved NZ orca whenever she feels like it...to me that sounds a bit unnecessary and self indulgent...

I personally believe that it is a fact of life that humans will always be fascinated by cetaceans (particularly dolphins and orca) and that they will always be seeking out contact with them. For example...the move towards wild dolphin watching is not all rosy. In many tourist locations a number of boats may chase single pods every day to give tourists a close encounter with the animals. This happens day after day and begins to alter the dolphin's natural behaviour. So no interaction with cetaceans be it wild or captive is going to seem 100% perfect to everyone. It is important that we work to get tighter regulations or better housing and standards for the animals whether it be in the wild or in captive facilities. Ruling out captive populations puts a lot more strain on the wild ones. Humans will seek out cetaceans...we love them..that's never going to change, but what can change is how we interact with them.

Ok, rant over
but my point is that will all biological controversialities it is usually best to find a compromise. In this case, a blanket ban on captive orcas is not the best answer, so the activists that are trying to release Morgan at all costs are not doing what right for her as an individual.

I hope that, political and animal rights activists aside, the best decision will be made for Morgan's future.

 

[John Dineley]

I personally believe that it is a fact of life that humans will always be fascinated by cetaceans (particularly dolphins and orca) and that they will always be seeking out contact with them. For example...the move towards wild dolphin watching is not all rosy. In many tourist locations a number of boats may chase single pods every day to give tourists a close encounter with the animals. This happens day after day and begins to alter the dolphin's natural behaviour. So no interaction with cetaceans be it wild or captive is going to seem 100% perfect to everyone. It is important that we work to get tighter regulations or better housing and standards for the animals whether it be in the wild or in captive facilities.

A very good point. Wild interactions with cetaceans are often looked upon as a alternative to captive display but unfortunately this has proved to be detrimental to the animals concerned unless legally enforced regulations are implemented. Some counties already have these and some are considering banning tourist boat interactions altogether. It's a little know fact that the 'tame' wild dolphins in Shark Bay in Australia had a high calf mortality rates due to mothers neglecting their calves until wardening of these interactions were in place.

 

[Yassa]

"The fact that these activists have fought to keep her at Harderwijk in a smaller pool with less company illustrates their disregard for the actual welfare of Morgan."

Sealion, that simplifies the situation waay to much and is just not true. Once she is in Loroparque, the situation regarding release or captivity is final. If keeping her in Harderwijk in a cramped tank for some months longer would make a release possible, it would totally be worth it. I do share the opinion that neither Sea World nor Loro Parque nor Marineland Antibes are acceptable options for her. The Seaworld management of orcas is horrendous and not taking the social needs of the animals in consideration.
I do not think that the Keiko situation really is comparable - after all, he had been in captivity for much, much longer then Morgan and the positive thing out of his release was that even such an animal (who was pretty unsuitable for release at all) was able to support himself for weeks/months before return his attention to humans.

I do not know enough to judge if releasing Morgan is an option. I have a lot of doubts. But I find it totally appalling how those people who have a different opinion are constantly and repeatatly judged as "lunatics" or left extremists all the time. In a democratic society, it is a basic rule to treat those that do not share your opinion with a basic amount of respect.

 

[Jurek7]

If keeping her in Harderwijk in a cramped tank for some months longer would make a release possible, it would totally be worth it.

Sorry, what new options might possibly appear? It was protesting for the sake of harassing the dolphinarium, even if animal itself suffered.

I do not think that the Keiko situation really is comparable - after all, he had been in captivity for much, much longer then Morgan and the positive thing out of his release was that even such an animal (who was pretty unsuitable for release at all) was able to support himself for weeks/months before return his attention to humans.

Actually, how many succesful releases of killer whales took place? I seen quoted figures of survival of orca in captivity. What is the record of release?

Actually, Morgan might be loaned to Artibes or seaworld with provision that her welfare will be consulted. However this would mean that animal right people would need to think sensibly instead of treating oceanaria as devil incarnate. I'm also not sure if these institutions would accept Morgan this way, precisely because any decision, right or wrong, could be delayed indefinitely.

 

[John Dineley]

The Seaworld management of orcas is horrendous and not taking the social needs of the animals in consideration.

I think that is a rather unfair assessment to say the least. There may be faults with Sea World but would say they have had some considerable success with orcas. And I don't understand the comment 'social needs'. I think this could be equally levelled at many zoos keeping of animals such as chimps and elephants.

As to Morgan. For goodness sake this animal is not suitable for release and whether you think Marineland etal is not suitable - aside from euthanasia (which I sometimes think the animal-rights movement would prefer this, but actually don't have the guts to say it) where else is this animal to go?