Your fantasy breeding pair for your zoo

Javan Rhino said:
As for your second point, I believe that any animal can be kept alive in captivity, it's just we don't have the experience or knowledge to care for some (or at least didn't in some cases and do now).

It was considered difficult/impossible to keep Sumatran rhino alive I believe, but now that Cincinnati has the experience and the knowledge they seem to have done a decent job, even having 3 calves before losing their breeding female Emi.
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Fantasies apart..;) I think there are some species which will never prosper in zoos, at least in certain parts of the World. Example; delicate tropical Primates like Douc Langurs, Proboscis monkeys etc just don't seem able to thrive in temperate climates, however good their care and husbandry. Yet I saw a whole crowd of Douc Langurs in the warm/humid Bangkok Zoo in very 'third world'-type cages and they looked extremely healthy, not dull & listless like the ones I've seen in the past in European zoos. So I believe for certain species, at least, climate is sometimes the overriding factor which decides success or failure. I think Red Colobus are another more 'difficult' species too, much more so than the b/w forms.

Sumatran Rhinos have been kept alive sucessfully for long periods of time in the past by London Zoo(1800's) Copenhagen Zoo and Port Lympne- long before Cincinnati managed to. And at Cincinnati the male Ipuh nearly starved to death before they learned how to keep them properly( the diet) whereas this was, curiously, a problem which the other zoos like London, Copenhagen and Port Lympne never appeared to have! The problem was breeding them, which only Cincinnati successfully achieved but then only Cincinnati had a potential pair of suitable breeding animals.(London probably never tried, both Port Lympne's females were unfit/too old, Copenhagen could never obtain a male for their female).

Whether Cincinnati can still continue to build on their breeding success with this species, after the setback of Emi's death, remains to be seen.
 
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Opisthocomus hoazin - I believe none are currently kept in zoos (because of their specialised diet)

and Corbulonasus longicauda - a small island species of rhinograde that became extinct in the 1950's as a result of habitat destruction.

:p

Hix
 
Pertinax said:
Fantasies apart..;) I think there are some species which will never prosper in zoos, at least in certain parts of the World. Example; delicate tropical Primates like Douc Langurs, Proboscis monkeys etc just don't seem able to thrive in temperate climates, however good their care and husbandry. Yet I saw a whole crowd of Douc Langurs in the warm/humid Bangkok Zoo in very 'third world'-type cages and they looked extremely healthy, not dull & listless like the ones I've seen in the past in European zoos. So I believe for certain species, at least, climate is sometimes the overriding factor which decides success or failure. I think Red Colobus are another more 'difficult' species too, much more so than the b/w forms.

Sumatran Rhinos have been kept alive sucessfully for long periods of time in the past by London Zoo(1800's) Copenhagen Zoo and Port Lympne- long before Cincinnati managed to. And at Cincinnati the male Ipuh nearly starved to death before they learned how to keep them properly( the diet) whereas this was, curiously, a problem which the other zoos like London, Copenhagen and Port Lympne never appeared to have! The problem was breeding them, which only Cincinnati successfully achieved but then only Cincinnati had a potential pair of suitable breeding animals.(London probably never tried, both Port Lympne's females were unfit/too old, Copenhagen could never obtain a male for their female).

Whether Cincinnati can still continue to build on their breeding success with this species, after the setback of Emi's death, remains to be seen.
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Thanks for the info Pertinax - I didn't realise they were kept successfully so long prior, but I remember hearing that it was Port Lympne that got them feeding straight away, whereas Cincinnati couldn't get them to eat. I think it's a terrible shame that PL never had suitable animals for breeding, and I hope equally that Cincinnati can overcome the setback of Emi's death.

As for temperature, whereas I agree that there are many animals that need the right climate, again it is a case of learning about the animals and, in this case (I didn't mention, but maybe should have done) is advancing technology. Although it is very expensive and may not be practical for most species, there are certain 'climate-fussy' species that have/are being kept alive outside of that climate due to climate control. An example being maybe the Emperor penguins at San Diego (I don't know how successful these are, but they are VERY climate fussy and would die in days even in colder countries like England and Scotland [I asked Edinburgh once if they would have the right climate for them, and alas it would be too warm]).

I agree that some species wouldn't work, but I do believe there are those that were previously considered impossible that are making steps and lasting longer with each attempt.
 
Javan Rhino said:
I think it's a terrible shame that PL never had suitable animals for breeding, and I hope equally that Cincinnati can overcome the setback of Emi's death.

Although it is very expensive and may not be practical for most species, there are certain 'climate-fussy' species that have/are being kept alive outside of that climate due to climate control.
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I think with a younger female its very likely Port Lympne would have succeeded in breeding Sumatran rhino and so been the first to do so in modern times.

I agree that with temperature control much is possible- maybe in a hot/humid atmosphere difficult species like the Douc Langurs and Proboscis Monkeys would thrive in Europe- I don't see why not. Both have been successfully maintained, and even bred in captivity, but they just don't prosper longterm, at least in temperate climates it seems.

Sumatran rhino, Douc Langurs, Proboscis monkey, all bordering on being 'Fantasy' species...;)
 
Platypus displayed in an indoor/outdoor habitat with underwater viewing, and room for an expanding population. Something you don't see outside of Australia.
 
Fantasies aside, I would like to see some more South American species established in European Zoos. There is so much diversity, that many don't know about. It doesn't have to be Uakaris or Mountain Tapirs (not bad either, admittedly), but I'd love to see more crab eating racoons or tayra instead of the ever present coati. Pampas fox or crab eating fox instead of some racoon dogs.
For my local zoo, I would particularly like a breeding pair of Margay. They have been kept at Dortmund for decades without ever producing a single kitten ...
 
Saro said:
Fantasies aside, I would like to see some more South American species established in European Zoos. There is so much diversity, that many don't know about. It doesn't have to be Uakaris or Mountain Tapirs (not bad either, admittedly), but I'd love to see more crab eating racoons or tayra instead of the ever present coati. Pampas fox or crab eating fox instead of some racoon dogs.
For my local zoo, I would particularly like a breeding pair of Margay. They have been kept at Dortmund for decades without ever producing a single kitten ...
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Its funny that these are a very rare animals to see in zoos but so common to see in private breeders.

Young Adult Tayra
 
ScreamArmadillo said:
Its funny that these are a very rare animals to see in zoos but so common to see in private breeders.

Young Adult Tayra
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The Tayra aside (Tayra as pet makes me cringe), which of the species I listed are common in private hands ? I know everything is possible (just found lesser anteaters as pets in the states), but I wasn't aware of any pampas or crab-eating fox outside of South America!
 
Fantasy Breeding Pair

Personally, I believe that zoos don't present a diverse range of African Animals. Even though almost every zoo have an African Savanna exhibit, it's always the same species as the next zoo has. Usually you see, in the typical African Savanna exhibit, Giraffe, Zebra, Lion, ect.... My dream is to create a savanna that is how you would really see it. Wildebeest, Hartebeest, Gemsbok, Cape Buffalo, Bontebok, Kob, ect.....

Different Species of Giraffe

Brown Hyenas

Other Hyrax species than Rock Hyrax

Springhare, Gundi, Crested Rat, Striped Grass Rat, Giant Otter Shrew, ect...
 
Never seen a Crab Eating Raccoon or Pampas in Private hands but have seen Pale, Ruppell's, and Corsac Fox breeder. But believe me, If you can own Cassowary and Fishing Cats it won't be long until we start to see some South American Canidae in the pet trade.
 
ScreamArmadillo said:
My dream is to create a savanna that is how you would really see it. Wildebeest, Hartebeest, Gemsbok, Cape Buffalo, Bontebok, Kob, ect.....


Problem is, in order to keep most of these, you need some pretty skilled keepers and that kind of skill is increasingly hard to find. So most zoos opt for the easy solution : Eland, Plains Zebra and maybe some ostrich, if you are lucky ...
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Whilst I'll be enthusiastically visiting Gentle lemur's indri I'm going to have kakapo! It's the only way I'm going to get to see them!
 
For me it would be a pair of Red Uakaris and a new pair of Mountain Tapirs for the LA Zoo. These are two species that it will be a shame to see disappear from zoos...
 
Saro said:
ScreamArmadillo said:
My dream is to create a savanna that is how you would really see it. Wildebeest, Hartebeest, Gemsbok, Cape Buffalo, Bontebok, Kob, ect.....


Problem is, in order to keep most of these, you need some pretty skilled keepers and that kind of skill is increasingly hard to find. So most zoos opt for the easy solution : Eland, Plains Zebra and maybe some ostrich, if you are lucky ...
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Interesting. I believe you, but would like to know what is difficult about keeping these species. Why would the keepers need to be skilled and what should they be skilled at? I do know your a keeper, so I do believe you 100% but would just like to know some more specifics.

Thank you

Screaming Armadillo
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Well, the number one problem is aggression: towards other species, their own species and of course keepers. Wildebeest, Gemsbok and especially Hartebeest tend to be very aggressive. It takes some very skilled keeper to read their behavior right and to deal with them in the right way (and I do not mean violence). You literally have to know every detail of their behavior and biology in order to be able to treat them right. You have to know when they are ready to mate or ready to give birth pretty precisely. The aggression makes it very hard to keep them in the fancy African panoramas. Same is true for mountain zebras or grevy's. Many zoos don't want to put in the extra effort.
Also, many of the antelope species are easily scared, meaning they tend to run off in a mad frenzy and often break their neck or a leg in a fence. Lastly, even the right food can be a problem. Eland are like Holstein cows compared to all that and while plains zebras are no pony's, they are way easier to deal with then mountain or grevy's.
Many of the antelopes less common in zoos have very special needs, some of which I just mentioned, some have all the problems mentioned and some others as well. To the common zoo visitor, it does not matter, if it is a kudu or an eland or a nyala. So some zoos think : why should I even try ...
 
Saro said:
Well, the number one problem is aggression: towards other species, their own species and of course keepers. Wildebeest, Gemsbok and especially Hartebeest tend to be very aggressive. It takes some very skilled keeper to read their behavior right and to deal with them in the right way (and I do not mean violence). You literally have to know every detail of their behavior and biology in order to be able to treat them right. You have to know when they are ready to mate or ready to give birth pretty precisely. The aggression makes it very hard to keep them in the fancy African panoramas. Same is true for mountain zebras or grevy's. Many zoos don't want to put in the extra effort.
Also, many of the antelope species are easily scared, meaning they tend to run off in a mad frenzy and often break their neck or a leg in a fence. Lastly, even the right food can be a problem. Eland are like Holstein cows compared to all that and while plains zebras are no pony's, they are way easier to deal with then mountain or grevy's.
Many of the antelopes less common in zoos have very special needs, some of which I just mentioned, some have all the problems mentioned and some others as well. To the common zoo visitor, it does not matter, if it is a kudu or an eland or a nyala. So some zoos think : why should I even try ...
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Thank you for the info. You were very informative in your post. :)
 
KCZooFan said:
Personally though, clouded leopards.
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i agree with clouded leopards too, I can't wait for Cincinnati to breed the very first Clouded Leopards using AI in the fall.

Eurasian Eagle Owl
Ring-tailed lemur
Komodo dragon
Black Rhino
Florida manatee
Przewalski's horse
Red panda
Siamang
Caracal
Polar bear
Sumatran orangutan
Banded Palm Civet
 
I would love for Beardsley Zoo to complete their Andes Adventure exhibit but after talking to a keeper about it, that won't happen for about 5 years:(. However, when the project is completed, I would love for a breeding pair of jaguars. I also would like for a female Andean Bear to join their lone male. I'd also like for their Amur Tigers to breed, but they never have had cubs.
 
I'd quite like a local(ish) zoo to get a pair of Iberian lynx and display them in a wooded enclosure with a central viewing area that is cleared of trees and features natural (not fake :p) rockwork, a small pool and some natural looking platforms for resting and enrichment eg. scent marking, hidden food, scratching posts etc. We're talking about 3/4 acre in size with only a couple of viewing points around the main clearing so probably not the best for anybody other than the most patient of the paying public...
 
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