Zion Wildlife Gardens Zion re-opens with new name, Kingdom Of Zion

You might as well know Kiwipo that during 2011 some moves were made to try and make it more reasonable for visitors to go to Zion. They had half priced tours going and specials for the holidays.

It was a team effort and I was part of that.

I can say that now that I'm not bound up by legal constraints.

Patricia Busch is a close friend of mine. Efforts were being made to try and improve things. But given the difficulties and then subsequent receivership what could anyone do? You tell me.:eek:
 
Chlidonias said:
the park's new website is up and running now: Welcome to ZION - Home for the big Cats & Craig Busch

This page has designs for future enclosures (they sure do have some fanciful imaginations there as to what they can achieve!): )
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The future plans are described as "artist's Impressions" But like you I would rather describe them as "fanciful doodles"

Even to my untrained eye there are some obvious bad points. Using a high mesh fence for example, and the large round fake koppe erection in the middle of a pen.
As for the moated pen, I presume the huge building in the back is some sort of hotel and/or restaurant going by the tables and chairs on the top.

I am guessing the Lions inside pens and other spaces for lion care are on the bottom floor. Living above lions may sound good in theory, but somewhat smelly in practice. Not sure what sort of view those on the top floor would get of the lions unless they spend all their time at the moat, otherwise the guests would have to hang over the rails and look down as people did with the old style lion pits.

And the cost of this, doubt he would get much change out of ten million or so. Maybe Trev from Te Kauwhata is supporting him.

One thing I full agree with "Ask Alice" on is they need to diversify, the average zoo visitor wants to see more than just lions and tigers.

he can build all the fancy extravagant enclosures that he likes, but most people come to see zoo animals, not architecture.
 
AskAlice said:
You might as well know Kiwipo that during 2011 some moves were made to try and make it more reasonable for visitors to go to Zion. They had half priced tours going and specials for the holidays.

It was a team effort and I was part of that.

I can say that now that I'm not bound up by legal constraints.

Patricia Busch is a close friend of mine. Efforts were being made to try and improve things. But given the difficulties and then subsequent receivership what could anyone do? You tell me.:eek:
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I'm well aware Pat is a good friend of yours, and I know about the half priced tours and other measures, however they were too few and too late.

There were definitely some good people with some good ideas working there, but from what I could understand in general they weren't listened to.

It remains to be seen if the place will now improve, but it couldn't have got any worse.
 
AskAlice said:
You might as well know Kiwipo that during 2011 some moves were made to try and make it more reasonable for visitors to go to Zion. They had half priced tours going and specials for the holidays.

It was a team effort and I was part of that.

I can say that now that I'm not bound up by legal constraints.

Patricia Busch is a close friend of mine. Efforts were being made to try and improve things. But given the difficulties and then subsequent receivership what could anyone do? You tell me.:eek:
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There is one fact you may agree with,

What did Pat Busch lack to make the park a success?

Money, without that it didn't matter how dedicated she was, how many followers she had, how much good advice she was prepared to listen to, in the end she simply didn't have the funding to continue let alone improve.

CB now has partners who have money, so that is a huge asset of course. It remains to be seen how well he will utilise it.

I would hope the Busch women have given up and retired now, there time is well and truly over
 
Kiwipo I agree with you on everything else except for your mention about 'The Busch Women' giving up and retiring.

What will they retire too? There is nothing for them to go to. They were well and truly financially shafted. I'll be as blunt as that.

Their names are Megan and Patricia. They are two very fine women and regardless of what you may think or what you may or may not know I know them both very very well.

There's a very dark legacy to Zion and it's not over. That's all I can say about it. These two woman have been victimised and threatened then left homeless.

I should know I had to deal with it and the aftermath since.

Happy Easter Kiwipo enjoy the rest of your Monday.
 
AskAlice said:
Kiwipo I agree with you on everything else except for your mention about 'The Busch Women' giving up and retiring.

What will they retire too? There is nothing for them to go to. They were well and truly financially shafted. I'll be as blunt as that.

Their names are Megan and Patricia. They are two very fine women and regardless of what you may think or what you may or may not know I know them both very very well.

There's a very dark legacy to Zion and it's not over. That's all I can say about it. These two woman have been victimised and threatened then left homeless.

I should know I had to deal with it and the aftermath since.

Happy Easter Kiwipo enjoy the rest of your Monday.
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Good to see we agree on some points then, as to where the Busch women are going to retire to, have to admit I don't really care.

Might I suggest that the followers who supported them during the years they were in charge of Zion, continue to support them now, or have most of them deserted the sinking ship?

A huge amount of money was spent on legal costs over the park, the only winners during that period are the lawyers.

Time to move on and forget about Megan and Pat Busch, the majority of the country has already done so.

I'll let you have the last word on the Busch Women if you so desire, as far as I am concerned they are in the past and its the present and the future that is of concern.
 
kiwipo said:
Good to see we agree on some points then, as to where the Busch women are going to retire to, have to admit I don't really care.

Might I suggest that the followers who supported them during the years they were in charge of Zion, continue to support them now, or have most of them deserted the sinking ship?

A huge amount of money was spent on legal costs over the park, the only winners during that period are the lawyers.

Time to move on and forget about Megan and Pat Busch, the majority of the country has already done so.

I'll let you have the last word on the Busch Women if you so desire, as far as I am concerned they are in the past and its the present and the future that is of concern.
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Forgetting the victims of this mess (of which there are many) will not be forgotten and it won't be buried.

Yes those who supported them still do and still send their messages and best wishes of support for them.

People and animals both are victims in this more than just the cats I might add.

I'll just say inflicting any more negativity towards Megan and Patricia is unfair. They tried and tried their best.

For the cats of Zion the future of being film props again is a sad thought indeed
 
I initially didn't find the declawing of any large Apex creatures, so they couldn't hurt their human handlers, as wrong until I learned of the consequences to the animal.

My concern for the Big Cats at Zion, is that I have read many comments by those who say they are 'in the know', that almost none of the Cats are of any Conservational value. If the new Park fails, what will happen to them? I read somewhere (sorry, can't quote) that feeding this number of animals would cost around $40K (NZD) a month. I really do hope that if this figure is accurate, that the new Park will find the cash flow to accomodate those costs.

Consequences of declawing, apart from health issues, is that they can never be re intergrated into their natural habitat, and some claim, can not be part of any breeding programme.

Nevertheless, they are beautiful creatures who need to be taken care of. Let's hope they are, ay?
 
Fionn McCumhail said:
I initially didn't find the declawing of any large Apex creatures, so they couldn't hurt their human handlers, as wrong until I learned of the consequences to the animal.

My concern for the Big Cats at Zion, is that I have read many comments by those who say they are 'in the know', that almost none of the Cats are of any Conservational value. If the new Park fails, what will happen to them? I read somewhere (sorry, can't quote) that feeding this number of animals would cost around $40K (NZD) a month. I really do hope that if this figure is accurate, that the new Park will find the cash flow to accomodate those costs.

Consequences of declawing, apart from health issues, is that they can never be re intergrated into their natural habitat, and some claim, can not be part of any breeding programme.

Nevertheless, they are beautiful creatures who need to be taken care of. Let's hope they are, ay?
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Well it's not only people who say they are in the know who say these cats have no conservation value, that is also the opinion of people who are proven experts in the field.

White lions and tigers are as much a value to conservation as three legged chickens and two headed calves.

Sure there are a number of programs in Africa where white lions are specially bred in order to supposedly conserve them as a species, which they are not.

The place where CB got his white lions from is a well known white lion breeding centre, though in their case they breed them for trophy hunting and canned lion hunts. Now thanks to CB they have white tigers on their product list too.

If the park fails there are few options for the big cats, few zoos in Australasia will want them, and the few that do won't want to pay the cost of transport. Declawed lions are low on the want list for any zoo too.

But the new owners of the park have plenty of money, they can afford to run the park at a loss for some time if they so desire.

As I say it remains to be seen if things improve, but they sure couldn't have gotten any worse.
 
kiwipo said:
Well it's not only people who say they are in the know who say these cats have no conservation value, that is also the opinion of people who are proven experts in the field.

White lions and tigers are as much a value to conservation as three legged chickens and two headed calves.

Sure there are a number of programs in Africa where white lions are specially bred in order to supposedly conserve them as a species, which they are not.

The place where CB got his white lions from is a well known white lion breeding centre, though in their case they breed them for trophy hunting and canned lion hunts. Now thanks to CB they have white tigers on their product list too.

If the park fails there are few options for the big cats, few zoos in Australasia will want them, and the few that do won't want to pay the cost of transport. Declawed lions are low on the want list for any zoo too.

But the new owners of the park have plenty of money, they can afford to run the park at a loss for some time if they so desire.

As I say it remains to be seen if things improve, but they sure couldn't have gotten any worse.
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I hear what you are saying and that is a thorn in my side. I read about places that on the surface are safe places for animals and ask people to support them, and then the next thing, they are being revealed as something quite different. I know of people who think zoos are such a bad place, as the animals should be in their natural environment, but even when we seem to have places that promote that, there is canned hunting etc. and we (meaning mankind) just are not really looking after these creatures.

What is the answer?

In regards to Zion, I have only followed it a bit more closely in the last year, and I still regard myself as a newbie, so my opinion is open to be challenged and more learning is needed on my part, but I do go back to, these Cats need to be cared for, for as long as they live, they do have that right don't they? So if the new 'Zion' has the cashflow and that can happen, isn't that a good thing?
 
Yes. And yet, no.

Totally agree that the unfortunate provenance of the big cats at Kamo means that they are of no conservation value whatsoever for breeding. Also agree that, from the animal welfare perspective, their future needs should be provided for. A failure to adhere to answering this need would be confirmed by the announcement, should it come, of CB informing the viewing public of the world, whom he is teaching, of the birth of yet more cubs of no conservation value whatsoever. Perhaps they could be preservated?

Just my opinion, but I have grave reservations that this new bunch of apparent zoo owners hold the good of those animals to the fore. And, if they are unsuccessful in their bids to reinvent 'The lionman' on TV, I cannot see how the park could possibly survive, no matter how grandiose and (perhaps) overly optimistic their visions of the future may be. Even with a re-emergence of CB on our screens, it seems to me to be an unlikely cure-all for the deeply entrenched problems at Kamo. And the so called lion man cannot live by Facebook alone.

Whilst there remains funds in the pot, if they really cared about the animals, maybe they would develop a contingency plan and establish somewhere where the future of the big cats could be safeguarded should it all turn to custard and... NO CUBS!! (Just as a by the bye, if the Facebook crowd really gave a damn about the animals they would not have lambasted the previous keepers of Zion, but instead would have supported them to find a solution to the whole damn mess.

There is a future for the Kamo park, but I worry whether the current vocal management have either the foresight or skill sets to accomplish that. We shall see.

Just by the way Kiwipo, and thanks for your post, but are you saying that Craig Busch has been instrumental in putting white tigers on the canned hunting product list? Can you expand on that? (Not being challenging here, just interested.)
 
Cadders said:
Just by the way Kiwipo, and thanks for your post, but are you saying that Craig Busch has been instrumental in putting white tigers on the canned hunting product list? Can you expand on that? (Not being challenging here, just interested.)
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If you have a look at the Lion Man TV series, the program where he goes to Africa to look at White Lions, you will see him making the deal with the owner of the Breeding Farm to swap white tiger cubs for while lion cubs.

The White Lion Breeding Project is a centre that breeds lions and some other animals for the hunting trade.

Canned hunting of many species including lions is still alive and well in South Africa, the majority of breeding projects breed animals for the hunting industry, just as the majority of bovine and sheep breeders breed their animals for the meat industry.

I am South African born, and spent the first half of my life living and working on lion and wild animal breeding farms, my relations still operate a large breeding project (although no longer breed lions) My Grandfather was one of the original hunters who seeing the decline of wild game decided to start breeding more, and its been a booming industry ever since the 60s.

Its not something that I ever agreed with though. However 23 years of living and working with lions on breeding farms has given me a bit of know how about them and the canned hunting industry in Africa.
 
To see more about the place where CB got his white lions, check the link below. The owner, Ed Hearn, has a number of projects and attractions on his property, but you won't find any mention of canned hunting there. Its a very controversial subject in South Africa, and world wide, so its all very covert. But its far to valuable a practice to stop and the govt knows it.


Rhino & Lion Nature Reserve
 
and things get just that little bit more interesting......

Questions raised over lion man's actions in Africa - Story - Campbell Live - TV Shows - 3 News
For the first time in three and a half years Craig Busch is back in charge of the cats at the lionpark he founded.

Zion Wildlife Gardens is now 'Kingdom of Zion' and it's open for business.

Tonight Campbell Live reveals what Craig Busch was doing during those three and a half years he was away. Busch says he went to Africa to get away from the mess back home, but we can reveal the Lion man has had his share of conflict overseas too.

He's embroiled in disputes over filming in Africa, and questions have also been raised about what's happened to funds raised by fans to get him back into the park.

Watch the exclusive report, where Natasha Utting follows the money through two continents and home again.
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video here (9.04 minutes long), which was just on the current affairs programme Campbell Live an hour ago: Questions raised over lion man's actions in Africa - Campbell Live - Video - 3 News
 
I have just watched a few videos on there and am absolutely shocked with what is reported to have gone on while he was at the park. Punching lions in the face, killing a cub with a rock and keeping a dead lion in the freezer for months is an absolute disgrace. the man should not be allowed anywhere near these animals!
 
Mr T said:
I have just watched a few videos on there and am absolutely shocked with what is reported to have gone on while he was at the park. Punching lions in the face, killing a cub with a rock and keeping a dead lion in the freezer for months is an absolute disgrace. the man should not be allowed anywhere near these animals!
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no he shouldn't, but he will always have fans to support him. However many get burned and realise their error, there will always be more numbskulls coming up in the wings to take their places.

I believe the "killing a lion cub with a rock" was heresay however.
 
Sure, it was hearsay. But that doesn't mean that it was untrue either. One day we may know, but I doubt it.

PS Steady Chlidonias. Us numbskulls are sensitive souls y'know!
 
Cadders said:
PS Steady Chlidonias. Us numbskulls are sensitive souls y'know!
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you may take numbskull as a past tense, as you have progressed into clarity ;)
 
What a disgraceful situation.

I went to this park 5 years ago - I've posted on my visit and won't repeat myself - but I was shocked at the time at the condition of the animals, the size and condition of their enclosures and the selection of the animals (a recessive gene freak show). I've seen significantly better conditions and enclosures in the third world.

I was in no way surprised when a keeper was killed, unless things have changed since I went (and reading between the lines they've got worse) someone will be killed again.

Animals in this park are bred in the manner they are at farms - for human consumption, in this case humans consumption of entertainment instead of meat, eggs, milk and so on, with no regard as to conservation, education, etc.

This "zoo" has lost money, kept animals in tragic conditions and most importantly cost a man his life.

The humane thing to do is rehome any animals that can be, put down the remainder and turn the land back into a profitable paddock, then forget this sham was ever allowed in NZ.

This saga has been going on WAY too long.
 
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