Zoo and wildlife zeitgeists

nanoboy

nanoboy

Well-Known Member
In the old days it was totally acceptable to collect animals from the wild and keep them in tiny cages to amuse visitors. It was ok to shoot and kill a lion during a hunting scene in a movie. One could buy a leopard in Harrods and take it for a walk through the streets of London. Vets were taught that animals did not feel pain. This was the zeitgeist then and very few people were against it. Times changed, luckily.

What's our wildlife and zoo zeitgeists that the next generation in 2050 say will look back and say "I can't believe you guys were ok with that"?
 
Egyptian zoos, most asian zoos, american roadside zoos, deforestation, and other issues.

It really depends what and how drastically the zoo and conservation situation is then, only then will we know
 
I think future generations will look back at holding enclosures with some dismay, however I suppose that there's an effort to change them now as well. Discussion about holding cages could take up a whole thread, but does ease of hygiene outweigh other environmental needs?
 
I´m afraid the next generation woun´t understand that zoos now-a-days phase-out surtain species which at that time ( say 2050 ) will not be avaible anymore = extinct.
We also don't understand why zoos in the past didn't save passengers doves, carolina and paradise parakeet, quagga, schomburgk's deer and so on..............
 
vogelcommando said:
I´m afraid the next generation woun´t understand that zoos now-a-days phase-out surtain species which at that time ( say 2050 ) will not be avaible anymore = extinct.
We also don't understand why zoos in the past didn't save passengers doves, carolina and paradise parakeet, quagga, schomburgk's deer and so on..............
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I think that's a very interesting and important point.

At the Future of Zoos symposium in Buffalo last year, Sue Margulis brought up a good point: we may not be able to meet all the needs of every captive species currently, but once we accept to withdraw some species from all institutions, we (most likely) won't ever be able to hold those species again (even if they don't go extinct).
 
nanoboy said:
What's our wildlife and zoo zeitgeists that the next generation in 2050 say will look back and say "I can't believe you guys were ok with that"?
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I think likely there will be no dolphins or orcas in captivity, except perhaps in rehab/rescue type contexts. There seems to be a growing movement away from the circus-type shows that SeaWorld and aquariums keep cetaceans in and I doubt that people are going to find these acceptable in coming decades.

I think that fewer zoos will have extensive megafauna collections. Smaller urban zoos like London will likely only have a few "marquee" species and hopefully find ways to make smaller species interesting and attractive. The new zoo being built in Paris, the Bristol Zoo, and the Central Park Zoo are harbingers of this. Unless a zoo can build multi-acre exhibits for elephants, bears, great apes, savanna hoofstock (giraffes, antelope, zebras), big cats, rhinos, and hippos, it probably won't have them.
 
Yeah I agree with most posts. Those 2x4 zoos will become unprofitable and many will close, especially as it becomes more difficult to procure animals. I think we will indeed regret that we had some species in zoos but after we phased them out they became extinct. I definitely think now is the time to see performing cetaceans because they will go the way to chimpanzee tea parties soon. Zoos themselves will change and we will wonder how we allowed elephants to be kept in such small enclosures.

I think that within 30 years we will not be allowed to keep any undomesticated pet.
 
I think in 2050 it will be inacceptable that just now people let several lion subspecies to become extinct, if they breed so easily in captivity.

...that nobody collected DNA samples from vanishing animals, although people already know they could be cloned back,
...that too little was done to protect wildlife in tropics and import founder animals from tropical zoos.
...that conservationists toyed with "education" and when "educated" children grew up wildlife was already destroyed.
...that oceans were overfished.
...that nobody cared to protect micro-biodiversity - small reserves with unknown and countless insects, mites, fungi etc.

I don't think future generations would be much more strict on "animal welfare". In 1980's it was seriously considered to let California Condors "die with dignity". Now it is seen as a crime.
 
That we allowed the Earth's air and oceans to be polluted, that we allowed the poles to melt, that many zoos allowed public views to determine many species they held there.

~Thylo:cool:
 
I imagine in the future that in a simillar sense to a seedbank, zoos and instituations around the world will hold embryos and DNA samples from all the different species. The ability to clone and also implant embryos will be much further advanced and so potentially some species may come out of extinction.

I imagine that the zoos will have moved to exhibiting less large species, and those that they do show have large exhibits. Zoos will move even more towards holding vast collections of insects, as it is more cost effective to have a room filled with 100 species of EW snails than 100 species of bird.

I also think that perhaps re-wilding will be very in fashion, and so instead of heading to a safari park on a staurday afternoon, people will drive to the rewilded zone and observe animals in a wild setting that they could only have seen in a zoo before
 
nanoboy said:
In the old days it was totally acceptable to collect animals from the wild and keep them in tiny cages to amuse visitors. It was ok to shoot and kill a lion during a hunting scene in a movie. One could buy a leopard in Harrods and take it for a walk through the streets of London.
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Two out of those three sound like the GOOD old days to me! I should, however, prefer people to be educated by seeing the animals rather than merely amused. I'm not sure about the morality of shooting an animal for a film although I have no objection to big game hunting itself even though it holds no appeal for me.

As for the future I think zoos are trendy enough already so I dread to think what they will be like in the years to come. In simpler times people just paid a charge to see some animals and as I said above hopefully learn something about them, even if it were only what the species in question looked like. Personally I just like looking at animals in zoos, so it would be dishonest of me to claim an interest in conservation. I like traditional exhibits and animal houses and I cannot understand why all zoo enthusiasts do not feel the same, so it is perhaps best that as far as I am concerned, and to borrow from the theme song to a British situation comedy of the 1970s, "the only thing to look forward to's the past".
 
CambsVet said:
I imagine in the future that in a simillar sense to a seedbank, zoos and instituations around the world will hold embryos and DNA samples from all the different species. The ability to clone and also implant embryos will be much further advanced and so potentially some species may come out of extinction.

I imagine that the zoos will have moved to exhibiting less large species, and those that they do show have large exhibits. Zoos will move even more towards holding vast collections of insects, as it is more cost effective to have a room filled with 100 species of EW snails than 100 species of bird.

I also think that perhaps re-wilding will be very in fashion, and so instead of heading to a safari park on a staurday afternoon, people will drive to the rewilded zone and observe animals in a wild setting that they could only have seen in a zoo before
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Oh dear. I hope you read the questions for your exams more carefully. :D
This thread is about the state of zoos and wildlife today, and how we will view it in 30 years time - not where zoos will be in 30 years time. ;) Great predictions, but zero marks. :D

Jurek7 and Thylo get full marks though. :)

Parrotsandrew, I do wonder if we will look forward to the past, or whether we will be horrified by the past.
 
nanoboy said:
Parrotsandrew, I do wonder if we will look forward to the past, or whether we will be horrified by the past.
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Those who are wise enough to listen and learn from those who were part of the past might know the answer to that.

My guess is that we will be just as horrified at some of the things to come in the future as we are with some of the things that happened in the past.
 
nanoboy said:
Oh dear. I hope you read the questions for your exams more carefully. :D
This thread is about the state of zoos and wildlife today, and how we will view it in 30 years time - not where zoos will be in 30 years time. ;) Great predictions, but zero marks. :D

Jurek7 and Thylo get full marks though. :)

Parrotsandrew, I do wonder if we will look forward to the past, or whether we will be horrified by the past.
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Pffttt I was just preempting the next question ;) :p

I guess we will look back and realise how much we have lost in terms of species held in captivity, and wish for the 'good old days' when you could see several subspecies (all of which had low captive numbers) instead of just one subspecies with a much healthier captive population. Or even see several species which will have been deemed unfeasible to keep in captivity (Orcas, River dolphin etc)
 
vogelcommando said:
.
We also don't understand why zoos in the past didn't save passengers doves, carolina and paradise parakeet, quagga, schomburgk's deer and so on..............
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I think that is because they didn't really understand the concept of Extinction- that a species could disappear entirely. In the era when so many species became extinct, Zoos existed almost solely as collections of animals on exhibition for the amusement/interest of the public. If they had specimens of a very rare species it was more by chance than deliberate selection because they were known to be on the brink of extinction. There was only a slow dawning that they could in fact also breed some of those 'endangered' species and therefore play a role in saving them from extinction and for several species this new age came far too late.
 
We should also look at the possibility that zoos may be in ruin and there may not be too many good ones left.

~Thylo:cool:
 
nanoboy said:
Parrotsandrew, I do wonder if we will look forward to the past, or whether we will be horrified by the past.
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I just long for the simpler days of yesteryear - not only where zoos are concerned, but in everything else as well.
 
i think that maybe more species will come in like what has happened recently in the UK like
bear cuscus, smooth coated otter, ground cuscus, tarsier, palawan bearcat ect.
more zoos will be pickier on what species they keep and will have huge several acre enclosures for megafauna .
 
I think we might look back at some enclosures today and be horrified. Have a look at the "worst enclosure photo" thread, and already there are enclosure in top zoos in first world countries that horrify us.

Maybe we might look back and wonder how we allowed animals from cold climates to be kept in the tropics and vice versa.
 
Is there a "worst enclosure photo" thread?! I'll probably like some of them!! (I am a big fan of iron bars and railings.)
 
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