Zoo Animals Populations that will Expand in the Future

[Nikola Chavkosk]

How many Fiji iguanas are in all zoos together - less than 50?

I think there are much more, maybe some 250 in the all zoos world wide except Fiji institutions. In Europe only, there are currently 44 holding zoos and most probably around 100 Fiji banded iguanas, if not more. Also there are 7 holders of Fiji short-crested iguana, and probably around 25-30 animals from this species in European zoos.

Some countries, instead of fighting the unavoidable trade (or, actually, mostly doing nothing in the field) could allow controlled legal catching of reptiles or birds, with funds directed to conservation. The most difficult part seems to be controlling that the legal trade does not provide the cover to the illegal trade on a scale threatening the species. And of course, changing the attitude of some bureaucrats, that if they prohibit something, it does not exist.

I agree

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

Some other animal species that most probably will expand are:

-Utila spiny tailed iguana - so interesting look and interesting coloration of skin - currently held in 22 zoos in Europe (11 in England) and it is a critically endangered species - enough for huge interest in keeping this species.

What about
-Collared mangabey - I was lucky to see in Skopje zoo in this underdeveloped country, and currently held in 17 zoos in Europe. It's attractive, plus vulnerable and originates from narrow forest ocean-close belt (forestal) accross central equatorial Africa from Nigeria to Gabon. Or it is phasing out and thus some specimens were sent to Skopje

 

[jayjds2]

also, there are loads of koalas outside Australia already. I mean, how many does San Diego have?

San Diego has 22 on site, I believe. Not sure how many are on loan to other zoos but I think it's over 40, mostly to zoos in Europe.

 

[Gulo gulo]

-Utila spiny tailed iguana - so interesting look and interesting coloration of skin - currently held in 22 zoos in Europe (11 in England) and it is a critically endangered species - enough for huge interest in keeping this species.

C. bakeri is well-represented in private collections in the U.S. Most Ctenosaura do well on the private-side. Some hobbyists have half-a-dozen plus of some sp.

 

[Batto]

No, nobody can seriously believe that zoo directors are watching smuggled reptiles and cheering 'soon they will breed and we can get some'. Please be serious.

Nope, nobody, myself included, does believe that. After all, too many zoo directors these days have a business management background and thus have hardly any appreciation for rare species. If at all, it's the curators twirling their villain mustaches and gloating over the next shipment of illegal wildlife...But since you've asked for seriousness: as DDcorvus correctly pointed out, zoos are not supporting animal smuggling on purpose (neither is any of us here in this thread), but by sometimes turning a blind eye on the origin of certain specimens, they're not very helpful either. The horse might have bolted, but we should rather lock the stable door together afterwards instead of gaining a benefit out of it.

Some countries, instead of fighting the unavoidable trade (or, actually, mostly doing nothing in the field) could allow controlled legal catching of reptiles or birds, with funds directed to conservation. The most difficult part seems to be controlling that the legal trade does not provide the cover to the illegal trade on a scale threatening the species. And of course, changing the attitude of some bureaucrats, that if they prohibit something, it does not exist.

D'accord.

 

[Batto]

tuatara have been intercepted, and I have heard reliable stories from this side of the world of animals being sold and kept overseas.

I believe you that there have been cases of tuatara smuggling, but when did this take place-1990's, early 2000's, 2010's?

I know that you have a deeper insight than me in NZ conservation @Chli, but don't you think that allowing controlled and limited legal export of native NZ species such as Naultinus sp. for the purpose of international (commercial) breeding wouldn't decrease the illegal smuggling? From what I've heard, these geckos do reproduce quite well in captivity.

 

[Chlidonias]

I believe you that there have been cases of tuatara smuggling, but when did this take place-1990's, early 2000's, 2010's?

I know that you have a deeper insight than me in NZ conservation @Chli, but don't you think that allowing controlled and limited legal export of native NZ species such as Naultinus sp. for the purpose of international (commercial) breeding wouldn't decrease the illegal smuggling? From what I've heard, these geckos do reproduce quite well in captivity.

no I don't buy into that at all. For slow-breeding animals, legal exports simply provide cover for "laundering" of smuggled animals. Having animals legally overseas would not stop people smuggling them because that is far easier and cheaper. So you would have people legitimately keeping Jewelled Geckoes (for example) and then people simply smuggling them and selling them as legal ones.

NZ geckoes only produce two young after a year-long gestation. They breed quite readily in captivity but it is very slow. It would take a long time to build up a population theoretically large enough to prove smuggling ineffective. And they tend to have small disjunct populations in the wild.

 

[Batto]

Well, I disagree @Chli: forbidding any legal breeding outside of NZ actually increases the demand and thus the incentive to smuggle. A legal outlet would decrease the pressure & attraction generated by this artificial "unattainability" factor. The harder an animal is to get, the more shady individuals try to get it.

Helodermas, for example, are also relatively slow breeders. Nevertheless, the ex-situ population numbers of Heloderma horridum, H. exasperatum, and H. suspectum are constantly increasing (while the illegal poaching is going down), and I'm sure the same could/would be true for H. alvarezi and charlebogerti if the government of Guatemala allowed legal ex-situ breeding.
Having the possibility to get legal specimens might not shut down the illegal trade, the smuggling and the false labelling for good; however, on the long run, it would considerably lower the incentive to work illegally due to prices for specimens dropping once the species becomes more common in the legal trade.

 

[Chlidonias]

mm, I didn't expect you to agree with me though

As a completely opposite example, has the ready availability of African grey parrots stopped poaching for the pet trade? No, they are fast disappearing from the wild.

I spent a lot of time writing and re-writing what I wanted to say next but animal smugglers anger me, so I'll leave it here without adding anything else.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

C. bakeri is well-represented in private collections in the U.S. Most Ctenosaura do well on the private-side. Some hobbyists have half-a-dozen plus of some sp.

That's a good new Gulo gulo, thank for informing.
But do they need larger teraria to breed?, and then to nest eggs?

 

[Batto]

As a completely opposite example, has the ready availability of African grey parrots stopped poaching for the pet trade? No, they are fast disappearing from the wild.

That's because the commercial harvest rate (also for local human consumption) is too extensive and uncontrolled as well as negatively influenced by increased habitat loss. In the worst case scenario, however, the ex-situ population would be sufficient for offering specimens for reintroduction.
As previously mentioned, a controlled and limited legal trade with a species such as the Jewelled Gecko would decrease the demand and thus the incentive for smuggling-without destroying the native population.
You haven't replied to my question regarding the topicality of tuatara smuggling...yet?

 

[Gulo gulo]

That's a good new Gulo gulo, thank for informing.
But do they need larger teraria to breed?, and then to nest eggs?

I house most of my Ctenosaura in 1.8mx1.8mx2.4m enclosures. 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 depending on sp. The height allows for 1m deep mass (substrate). I base my housing around nesting, allowing the whole cage to be a nest box, if you will. Various temperature choices allow females to choose what they feel is best, rather than me giving them a box to lay in. Animals allowed choices do better, in my opinion. They know better than I do, I just listen to them. The temperature ranges with deep mass can allow any gradient, and with the mixture of mass, allows them to choose temp' and humidity that suits their needs. They're the experts, I'm just their slave.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

I house most of my Ctenosaura in 1.8mx1.8mx2.4m enclosures. 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 depending on sp. The height allows for 1m deep mass (substrate). I base my housing around nesting, allowing the whole cage to be a nest box, if you will. Various temperature choices allow females to choose what they feel is best, rather than me giving them a box to lay in. Animals allowed choices do better, in my opinion. They know better than I do, I just listen to them. The temperature ranges with deep mass can allow any gradient, and with the mixture of mass, allows them to choose temp' and humidity that suits their needs. They're the experts, I'm just their slave.

Thanks for this. Quite big enclosures.
You are right - they know better, in my opinion too.

 

[Gulo gulo]

Thanks for this. Quite big enclosures.
You are right - they know better, in my opinion too.

De nada. Some enclosures are larger, some smaller, depending on sp. But this is the common size amongst them. They're just boxes, and have to serve a certain function. Nesting makes or breaks most species. Suitable mass depth and such allows animals choices. In the mass, can bury and secure piping, cmu block for "homes". Security, preventing dehydration while resting, etc. Air temp's don't mean much. I find with most taxa, mass is more important. They can chose to bask at offerred sites or choose their own range to support their needs. Most often, people assume and house animals in opene enclosures with high heat exposure and no way to prevent dehydration and battling ambient temp's. Indoors, area may be one temp', but if animal(s) need higher exposure, they will sit and bake. Imagine a sunburn, and being in cooler air. Doesn't feel nice. So one seeks warmth. These animals will cook to compensate to achieve their needs. Harming them in the long run. A box placed in an area, with other boxes that house similar needs in a room with ambient temp' is a good start point. The mass can maintain lower or higher temps vs. the room temp'. I'm not for heating the air in the box, that accomplishes nothing. Need a thermally-sealed box to maintain a habitable enclosure. The cleaning/feeding/watering is enough air exchange without losing consistency. For larger animals, varius, salvadorii, the box is still a box, even if room-size or larger. This can be slightly trickier for access, at least for humans. I find a sensor that starts an "air curtain" maintains temp's when door is open or closed. Rather than rapid heat and humidity loss with opening. With larger species, much like zoos have training walls, I have a sectioned area that is accessed with air curtain. There is mesh. Animal(s) come over for prey, climbing up to allow me to check undersides, build trust and acceptance. Also works as a shift area. Door slides up, animal enters thanks to prey offering. Allows for cleaning, less stress, access for vet care, etc. Sorry for the rant.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

Fantastic brief description, thank you Gulo gulo. I will consider this in future.

 

[Jurek7]

As a completely opposite example, has the ready availability of African grey parrots stopped poaching for the pet trade? No, they are fast disappearing from the wild.

I don't want to start the fight, but first, keeping parrots is still legal in Africa (but imports to e.g. Europe ceased), second, African countries don't bother with fighting poaching, third, money from parrot trade does not go to parrot conservation, fourth, pet African grey parrots are tens of times more popular than pet geckos.

But there is a famous case when Gerald Durrell was contacted by a bird importer, that he sold surplus Bali Starlings too cheaply. Would he raise the price, because demand for the wild-caught ones died off...

 

[Art4Animals]

hopefully the captive Malayan tiger will increase in numbers.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

hopefully the captive Malayan tiger will increase in numbers.

Hopefully. I haven't hear/read yet about birth of Malayan tiger cubs in Europe yet, although there are about 10-13 Malayan tigers in European zoos (and some fresh new bloodlines were imported from Malaysia via now, not-open-for-the public Rare Species Consvervation Centre-RSCC); the situation in the U.S. however is much better - with over 50 animals I believe (and in a phase of expansion). I think one zoo population can be considered stable when there are at least 100 individuals spread in more zoos.

 

[JVM]

-Koala - very attractive (and thus big interest from zoos keeping it), relatively easy, or opportunity for, importation from Australia, breeds well in captivity.

Koalas will mostly never take off (outside of Aus) as they require SO many gum leaves. So unless a zoo was willing to make an enormous gumtree farm or continually ship gum leaves from Australia there will not be a koala explosion anytime soon.

I know nothing about Europe that isn't from European board members posting, but I see no evidence Koala populations in the U. S. will change in the foreseeable future, and I've heard the expense of shipping gum from Australia has caused some zoos, like Milwaukee County Zoo, to give up on the species.

 

[jayjds2]

Koalas are available if desired, but as mentioned above, the cost is too much for many facilities. In a good climate for growing eucalyptus, a zoo could potentially grow its own, alleviating quite a bit of cost, but few zoos do.