All the hippo posts moved to a new thread: Does a zoo need hippos?
Zoo/Aquarium Hot Takes
- Thread starter pachyderm pro
- Start date
No it really doesn't
Rockwork and random waterfalls and the like often make enclosures look less natural and less functional.~Thylo
Cannot emphasize how important this is. No rockwork is much better than bad rockwork, and good rockwork takes time and money. Only use rockwork if you know you can make it look good.No it really doesn't
~Thylo
My hot take is that, as much as I love the Bronx Zoo, it's fallen WAY, WAY behind in terms of the best zoos in America simply because its formerly cutting edge has grown dull as a bowling ball. By that, I mean that there's not much new besides Madagascar and that Children's Zoo Renovation.
I heard from a guy who knows a guy that they're planning an Amazonian thingy where WoD is so I hope that's what I need
I heard from a guy who knows a guy that they're planning an Amazonian thingy where WoD is so I hope that's what I need
My hot take is that something doesn't have to be new and shiny to be great 
but we've explored that discussion in other threads
Maybe this is a more recent plan but the last that's been publicized on the zoo's plans (in an interview with the director), the Latin American exhibit was planned for where Rare Animal Range used to be and the zoo wanted to reopen WoD as a nocturnal house again. I'd be surprised if they put a Latin American exhibit in that building simply because there's not much of any space around it for outdoor habitats. But again maybe things have changed. I'd certainly welcome it.
~Thylo
but we've explored that discussion in other threadsMaybe this is a more recent plan but the last that's been publicized on the zoo's plans (in an interview with the director), the Latin American exhibit was planned for where Rare Animal Range used to be and the zoo wanted to reopen WoD as a nocturnal house again. I'd be surprised if they put a Latin American exhibit in that building simply because there's not much of any space around it for outdoor habitats. But again maybe things have changed. I'd certainly welcome it.
~Thylo
Milwaukee Zoo has a better tank for Arapaima than Shedd Aquarium in my eyes
Like I said, it's very much something I got from the grapevine so idk. It may likely just be a concept they're running with. Apparently, they'll have jaguars tho which is neatMy hot take is that something doesn't have to be new and shiny to be great
Maybe this is a more recent plan but the last that's been publicized on the zoo's plans (in an interview with the director), the Latin American exhibit was planned for where Rare Animal Range used to be and the zoo wanted to reopen WoD as a nocturnal house again. I'd be surprised if they put a Latin American exhibit in that building simply because there's not much of any space around it for outdoor habitats. But again maybe things have changed. I'd certainly welcome it.
~Thylo
Hote take: old traditional city zoos founded before 1900 should be closed: they're already lack space and there's no room for expansion as they are surrounded by hostile urban grounds. Their old buildings need to much funding to keep them climate-proof and they're often classified as historical landmarks, so modern animal welfare adaptations are very expensive if not impossible.
So lets close Antwerp, Artis and the Jardin des Plantes, while Vienna, Berlin and Budapest should be obliged to downsize their collection with 50%.
So lets close Antwerp, Artis and the Jardin des Plantes, while Vienna, Berlin and Budapest should be obliged to downsize their collection with 50%.
This makes little sense logistically and there's no reason to do it for the majority of zoos in this category. Not to mention what a devastating impact this would have on captive sustainability if you closed down a significant portion of Europe's major zoos for no reason other than their age. There's an argument for some zoos like London and maybe even Philadelphia who are struggling and really suffering with their infrastructure, but zoos like Berlin are doing perfectly fine, thriving even. There's literally no reason to force what you're suggesting here, and it would be a terrible idea to do so. I also disagree with your claim that they mainly use old buildings which are too expensive to run and have poor welfare standards. Most of these zoos have either adapted their old buildings to modern standards, closed those buildings (Bronx's old zebra house and monkey house come to mind), or built entirely new buildings to replace their old ones. A lot of the worst building zoo buildings that exist today, welfare wise, that I've seen were built a lot more recently than 1900.
~Thylo
I'll take this out of the topic starters first post, with a wimp
Whats a hot take or unpopular opinion you have in regards to a certain zoo or zoos in general? This is the thread to post them. Post your own or make a rebuttal to get a discussion going. To get the ball rolling here is a hot take from yours truly.
This is thread for the discussion of opinions. I see no problem with someone respectfully disagreeing with your opinion and providing a counterargument.
As @birdsandbats said, this is a thread for the discussion of opinions. I don't think you shouldn't have posted your take if it's how you feel and want to share that, but I and others are also free to respond to it if we either agree or disagree. I have shared a number of my takes here and there throughout the thread which have been met with varying degrees of agreement and rebuttal. The discussions can be the best part! It's been split off now but for a time there were several pages of this thread dedicated to hippo husbandry/superiority
~Thylo
Apparently there's some confusion : my hot take is not my personal opinion: I have a great love for those 19c traditional city zoos. But it is a rather often used opinion in my country that the cramped Antwerp zoo has no future comparing to other zoos.
I possibly have misunderstood this thread, so I do apologize.
I think downsizing of collections is a very valid argument, and most of these inner city zoos already are doing this. However, I entirely disagree about closing these facilities. Many zoos can do amazing work with smaller species even if they have limited space. For instance, let's take a look at the Buttonwood Park Zoo in New Bedford, MA. This zoo is seven acres with no room for expansion. However, it is about an hour away from its closest zoo, is a very popular part of the community, and is still doing incredible work with many smaller, lesser-known species. Buttonwood is home to the largest family group of goeldi's monkeys in the country, works with a number of other callicthrid species, and works with over 30 waterfowl species, many of which are endangered. While this zoo may not be capable of working with many of your large, charismatic species, they are still doing incredible work with the species they do have. Many of the other zoos that you claim should be shut down are in the same boat. For instance, the Saint Louis Zoo fits your description of zoos that should be shut down, but is one of the five greatest zoos in the United States and still does a lot of incredible work for many species. Do you believe that either of these zoos should be shut down?
I don't even agree that downsizing is always necessary. I mean, if we're looking at how zoos would cram hundreds of species into tiny concrete slabs over 100 years ago then yes, they've needed to downsize and I'm pretty sure all European and American zoos which fit the definition have already. But even then, why must they downsize further? The Bronx fits the definition given in every way, yet most of us here would say we want to see more exhibits and more animals brought to the zoo, not less! Bronx's downsizing in 2009-2012 is commonly viewed as its worst era and some here don't think the zoo has or ever will recover from that loss in terms of overall quality. I can see anything less happening (except on a much larger scale) if a zoo like Berlin were to downsize significantly.
To add to your excellent point with Buttonwood, just look at how Bristol Zoo has for many years shifted its focus to smaller life, gaining it worldwide recognition as one of the best herptile and invertebrate collections in the world and with a damn good aquarium and top notch nocturnal house to boot! But it's suffered from the exact problems @Philipine eagle described, and they have decided to close the zoo, and the zoo world will be all the worse for it.
~Thylo
I personally wish to make a case for Artis in the Netherlands needing to downsize a bit. They keep several larger ABC species such as lions, gorillas and chimpansees whose exhibits are really starting to look dated to me. Especially if you compare it with other exhibits for these species within the country, Artis is starting to fall behind. Artis however faces 1 massive problem. Space. The zoo will eventually need to downsize if they wish to keep continuing to keep larger species like these, especially given that Artis do be one of the main targets seemingly for anti-captivity, for these sorts of reasons.
I'm not necessarily advocating for downsizing of collections, but more so saying that I can see why someone may want these zoos to downsize. As for Bronx Zoo, it should certainly either maintain the current collection or increase it, not downsize. The same thing applies for zoos like Brookfield and Franklin Park which have a lot of underutilized space. But there definitely are zoos out there that may need to further downsize. Look at the Lincoln Park Zoo, for instance. With their newly renovated cat house, they chose to keep lions and phase out tigers- since they didn't have the room to build quality habitats for both. Keep in mind downsizing can also mean two things. The first is exhibiting less species, but the second is exhibiting smaller species. This second form of downsizing is the one I hope more zoos choose to use when needed, since there are many small animals that can still make fascinating exhibits. Of course this form of downsizing needs to be done carefully, since nobody wants to see polar bears replaced with bald eagles, but can work well when zoos pick a smart replacement animal. Perhaps the best example is Rosamond Gifford Zoo replacing the worst lion exhibit in the AZA with an incredible habitat for an amur leopard.
I mean, there are literally only three or four buildings at Zoo Berlin which are older than 1945, thanks to the destruction of the zoo over the course of WWII
and the zoo is significantly larger in area than it was in 1900.......
At least (afaik) there are plans to make a new lion enclosure. Too bad that got postponed due to the virus.
I do think however that either one or both of the apes must go. The question is is there any place that could accept them.
I do think however that either one or both of the apes must go. The question is is there any place that could accept them.