Bengal Tiger
Well-Known Member
I know, my memory is pretty bad, so I posted that without realizing that I had jumbled up some images from my brain. When I realized my mistake I edited it. Apologies for any confusion.
Zoo/Aquarium Hot Takes
- Thread starter pachyderm pro
- Start date
Alternatively, you made a wild claim you didn't expect to be immediately called out on by @birdsandbats 
Bengal Tiger
Well-Known Member
I called myself out for the wild claim after realizing what I had unintentionally saidAlternatively, you made a wild claim you didn't expect to be immediately called out on
Really sorry about that. I need to double check on things drawn from distant memory, I get thing jumbled up. I don't want to derail the thread anymore, though. Sorry for the confusion. I know I've apologized for mistakes prior to this, but I really am trying. I've stopped posting as much on the site so that I don't accidentally make a mistake, but here I am again.
@Bengal Tiger I think what many of us don't understand is how you find all sorts of ideas, sources and rare species for a speculation thread (which you post in as much as the author does) yet somehow when you are on the main forum that research and thought-through attitude mysteriously vanishes.
Bengal Tiger
Well-Known Member
Neither do I, to be perfectly honest. I post more on the main forum when it is late, and my brain is not working as fast as it usually does. Plus, my mind wanders, and I think about the other thread. I honestly just got carried away in my excitement there. I think I'm going to restrict to minimal posting. I've decided I'd rather do media uploads. Plus, I also get nervous when posting on ZC for fear of doing something wrong, I think that may also be a part of the problem.
While definitely an influence on potentially poor posting, there's a lot of us that also post late at night. Read throughs before posting help catch errors.
Again, take a few moments to read through your post first before posting. Saves embarrassment.
Technically there's nothing wrong with what just happened - you just acted quickly and now you're having to deal with having made a quick post that was not well thought out. A lot of us have done that at some point.
Bengal Tiger
Well-Known Member
Really? That's kind of surprising.
Thanks, I've been reading through more than I used to, and it has been helping. I just need to be more thorough. Thanks for your patience, I understand that I haven't been easy to deal with, and I have been frustrated with myself as well. I'm gonna step back for a bit.
Persephone
Well-Known Member
To rerail things:
Yes, I have been to Tropic World. I found the Amazon area awe inspiring. The otters certainly have a ton of space, but for some reason the orangs don’t? I feel like this could be solved by just letting the orangs have access to the full area, plus some more climbing structures. Other zoos have mixed otters and orangs before.
To be honest I’ve seen larger and better indoor gorilla exhibits that also had outdoor components. My original post actually only stated that I’d extend the elephant policy with similar ones for cetaceans and great apes. Like with the original elephant policy I wouldn’t immediately kick out everyone who isn’t currently complying, but there would be pressures to either present a plan to improve or to send the species off to another zoo.
Yes, I have been to Tropic World. I found the Amazon area awe inspiring. The otters certainly have a ton of space, but for some reason the orangs don’t? I feel like this could be solved by just letting the orangs have access to the full area, plus some more climbing structures. Other zoos have mixed otters and orangs before.
To be honest I’ve seen larger and better indoor gorilla exhibits that also had outdoor components. My original post actually only stated that I’d extend the elephant policy with similar ones for cetaceans and great apes. Like with the original elephant policy I wouldn’t immediately kick out everyone who isn’t currently complying, but there would be pressures to either present a plan to improve or to send the species off to another zoo.
The AZA already has specific requirements/Animal care standards for all animals, not just elephants. They just aren't as publicized as the elephant care requirements and often focus on new exhibits (allowing existing exhibits to be grandfathered in for the remaining lives of the current residents).
Yeah, I've never understood why the orangs can't simply all of the Asian space - that would be a great exhibit for them.
Persephone
Well-Known Member
I’m aware of the care manuals. Read most of them, actually. I didn’t realize they were binding. I thought that the more nebulous “welfare of the animals” standard was used instead.
My hot take: Pandas are overrated and as soon as a cub reaches a year or two they join the adults in being incredibly boring
I live in reality and know that they generate income, but zoos that have pandas funnel all their marketing and resources into their panda programs and it drives me nuts
I live in reality and know that they generate income, but zoos that have pandas funnel all their marketing and resources into their panda programs and it drives me nuts
Well they have to recoup the million dollars a year loan cost somehow...
Sphenisciologist
Well-Known Member
To be fair though they also have to consider what’s appealing to the general public – as a zoochatter, we all may not personally be as attracted to pandas as an average tourist would, but it is still important to acknowledge that money isn’t exactly easy to obtain when you don’t promote cute and popular animals…
Oh absolutely. And I know that I'm in the minority when thinking this! But I can't help myself for wanting to vent about it lol
Persephone
Well-Known Member
My panda hot take is that the wrong zoos have them, for the most part. National Zoo definitely should for symbolic / diplomatic reasons, San Diego might as well because it’s already a tourist attraction. But a study showed that even the Bronx couldn’t reliably break even on the loans.
$1,000,000 per year per animal is a lot for a non-profit with a largely regional or local tourist base that can’t really charge more than $50, tops, for admission. Most can’t justify more than $20. For a family of three pandas you would need to draw in 300,000 visitors who wouldn’t otherwise visit the zoo at $20. $50 it’s still 120,000. That’s before exhibit upkeep, food, marketing budgets, etc.
Theme parks can charge way more than anyone else and see way higher tourist figures. Given the Disney Corporation’s ties to the Chinese government and struggle to get visitors to Animal Kingdom it’s surprising they haven’t tried harder to get pandas. They’re one of the only US zoos that could turn a profit on them.
Other hot take is that the energy spent courting China for pandas would probably be better spent building ties with Australia and Ecuador, the other reluctant exporters with cool species.
$1,000,000 per year per animal is a lot for a non-profit with a largely regional or local tourist base that can’t really charge more than $50, tops, for admission. Most can’t justify more than $20. For a family of three pandas you would need to draw in 300,000 visitors who wouldn’t otherwise visit the zoo at $20. $50 it’s still 120,000. That’s before exhibit upkeep, food, marketing budgets, etc.
Theme parks can charge way more than anyone else and see way higher tourist figures. Given the Disney Corporation’s ties to the Chinese government and struggle to get visitors to Animal Kingdom it’s surprising they haven’t tried harder to get pandas. They’re one of the only US zoos that could turn a profit on them.
Other hot take is that the energy spent courting China for pandas would probably be better spent building ties with Australia and Ecuador, the other reluctant exporters with cool species.
They do not generate income; they are a sizable net loss for zoos most of the time. Exceptions are 1) the first few months or year they are present, and 2) when cubs go on display.
I mean, they does attract more visitors. When you go to a zoo with pandas that section is always filled with people (even inside China) compare to the rest of the zoos. People love those cute black and white cuddly bear.
I'd argue that San Diego needs them less than almost any other zoo. San Diego has it's worldwide reputation, climate, and large collection to lean on. It was a major tourist destination long before pandas were exhibited and remains one in their absence.
If I were making decisions for SD Global, I'd scrap the idea altogether and put my resources into revamping the zoo as the seem to be doing. I know that it's the Safari Park and not the zoo, but I'd pay money to see the platypus exhibit 100 times before I'd go out of my way to see pandas.
