Honestly, I don't understand why many “Anti-elphant rider” people act like horses were always evolved to be ridden in the first place. The horse’s body is heavier than their, legs so it could be injured easily & harder to heal than people which is why they commonly must be killed as soon they stop during some horse race places. I will never say elephants should be ridden just because of it but I would give horses the right equally.
Not only that! The second main issue is that it can cause their spine to go down badly, which similarly happens in the horses with their legs too…
I honestly think it depends on the species. For example, I don’t think large carnivores should be in private hands but I support having small and rare amphibians and reptiles in the private trade.
Yeah If AZA zoos can’t keep many small endangered animals, I don't see the issues of non-AZA zoos having these as long they will not treat them like toys & house them in bad-looking enclosures
The problem is without an accreditation process, there is no way to guarantee a non-AZA private facility will meet these expectations or follow these rules. The idea we could accept private ownership as long as they follow the rules is reinventing the concept of accreditation, and a lot of private facilities are private because they don't want to be regulated or have to follow outside rules.
I agree with this though. There are not enough zoos in the United States to form captive viable populations by the standards being sought, and without new developments in the future (something that still happens in Europe!) it's hard to say where we'll end up.
Wish I wrote my takes while this thread was trending but I now have the courage to share my takes which might not be too crazy aside from my non-zoo (still zoological specific) takes. So here I go in no specific order, please go easy on me!
Here are non-zoo but still zoological related hot takes which I feel are very controversial
- I actually like the C-Section exhibits at the LA Zoo= I find them pretty unique and like the structure. For sure I don't think animals such as most felines, medium-sized primates, and birds of prey feel suitable, but for smaller animals I think they can work. I personally like the ones with the Radiated Tortoises and those with small birds. And because of their size, some do try to look more naturalistic and I'm guessing they are slightly more easier to manage. Also if they want to phase out an animal, they can add another small species that might fit the bill (maybe some Pygmy Marmosets?). I also enjoy how majority of these is holding something different in each exhibit (A binturong on one exhibit and a hornbill at the other!). I also think it can be a showcase on how these exhibits were used during hard budgeting times. I of course think the fore-mentioned species I explained might not fit should be given their own bigger exhibits (especially the Sea Eagles!)
- I don't have much issue keeping any species in captivity (yes that includes cetaceans)= I feel like if an animal wasn't meant to be in captivity, then they wouldn't breed and died long ago. Obviously species like great white sharks, baleen whales, vaquita, sailfish, mountain gorillas, etc. have been proven impossible to keep in the long-run or breed. I believe that the husbandry for captive animals including the controversial ones such as elephants, cetaceans, great apes, bears and big cats have evolved allowing it possible to provide quality of life for these animals. If anything (I know hypocritically
) I'm not keen in keeping canines in small spaces/households unless taken outdoors/walking regularly.
- I support/enjoy SeaWorld (cold take I know!) BUT (this is a huge but!) I find their fish collection (excluding sharks and rays) somewhat lacking. I visit the San Diego park and maybe its just me living under a rock and missing areas during my visits. I do find their sea turtles, mammal and bird collection outstanding but as someone who enjoys looking at tropical and ornamental fish, I don't have luck seeing them there aside from Turtle Reef and Shark Encounter and I feel like as an aquarium (though I guess also the theme park combination takes the toll) they would have various tanks or exhibits of them. Hoping the park someday opens a Great Barrier Reef or Hawaiian ocean exhibit. If you want to see the more bigger and charismatic animals (penguins, marine mammals) I for sure go to SeaWorld, but if your interesting in tropical fish I'd visit the Birch Aquarium further ahead and even my local Aquarium of the Pacific @ Long Beach.
- I love the common Zoo animals= I know a lot of us are sick of meerkats, otters, lemurs, penguins, etc. But I can't lie, I find these animals enjoyable to watch. Obviously penguins are my favorite animals and I never get tired of them. I find fore-mentioned animals interesting (they tend to be active and give many memory and photography opportunities) and as my last hot take I do enjoy me some clownfish (or Nemos!) and blue tang (Dory!). Admittedly my appreciation for these animals might come from films such as Finding Nemo, Madagscar, and Lion King. Before ZooChat, I admit never really cared much about rarer animals such as asiatic ungulates or subspecies, but I nowadays appreciate a lot of wildlife and always on the lookout for rare species not seen in most zoos.
- I don't mind Pandas= I feel like pandas in this site have been somewhat controversial with the way they are acquired and tend to affect zoo finances and collections. But I don't blame people for enjoying pandas, they are charismatic and any panda fan deserves the opportunity to see pandas at their local zoo. I'm not too knowledgeable about the shady panda democracy but I mean we shouldn't want pandas ban when they are beloved by the general public especially when it can be a child's favorite animal.
- We should help poor zoos improve not strive to shut them down= Probably my most controversial take but I do believe depending on the staff and zoo's positive motivation, they deserve their support. I obviously don't qualify zoos only caring for quick profit or staff just in it for money but I do believe there are staff in these poor zoos that truly are dedicated and adore the animals they care for and these zoos are still attacked by activists. It is complex because of course the animals at these roadsides do deserve better quality, but unfortunately it is difficult for their zoo to provide and doesn't help they get a negative press by animal rights organization so donations and support can be scarce! I believe that before jumping into conclusions and thinking this zoo should be shut down, we should understand the zoo's situation and if they wish to improve help them at that.
Anyways that concludes this. I really wanted to share this with everyone. And I am sorry for this long post (especially the sanctuary one which I feel I might have not executed well and I apologize if I sound disrespectful), but I do want to hear your guys opinions on these takes! So please don't hesitate to share your thoughts!
- I don't mind exotic pet ownership and recently been more open to animal attractions such as circuses= This somewhat relates back to my previous take, I used to be against all circuses and animal attractions (stuff like elephant rides) basically thinking they were always physically abusive, but going through a pro-zoo blog I do agree and believe now that there are some circuses and animal attractions who do love their animals and provide adequate care for them, as long as the animal is not getting hurt and receiving positive reinforcement I see no problem (I recommend the video sent by @ZooApollo in this thread recently). As for exotic pet ownership, this is admittedly complicated. I and maybe most here are okay with birds, reptiles, and fish under human care not at zoos but oppose to owning wild cats, foxes, otters, primates, etc. If someone is able to provide the right care and environment for these exotics, I think they deserve to keep their animals that they're caring for. I know that is difficult to find someone with promising care (trust me I'm not keen of those mesh fence yards you see at "Tiger King" or BCR) and I personally prefer someone dedicating a room or area attempting to resemble a zoo exhibit that would be adequate for that animal (ex. a sand room for Fennec foxes with some rockwork and enrichment). And of course there is the ethnicity of obtaining these animals, I don't agree with stuff like removing infant animals right away from their mothers for those attach to their mothers at birth like chimps and big cats, but a rescue (orphan) can be an option but there is no animal adoption shelter for exotics like those. In general, if that individual has done their research, can afford veterinary care, create a suitable habitat, reduce stress, provide enrichment, and quality care for their animal/s, I don't think its problematic (I watch otter videos and they seem to be doing well and are provided various enrichment). There's also the issue with the animal as an individual, for example someone might call for a solo chimp, lemur, otter, fox, penguin, or elephant etc. to be sent to a sanctuary or zoo for they can be with their kind, but the thing is, those animals have more likely never seen another of their kind and would more likely struggle to integrate with others and instead seek comfort with their owners and their family and friends (ex. I disagree how TES kidnapped Nosey the elephant from her family, the only people she knew and is comfortable with)
- I find sanctuaries OVERRATED= this has to be my biggest controversial take but I stand by this. I blame the abundance of praise given by animal rights organizations such as PETA, The Whale Sanctuary Project, IDA, Voices For Animals, Born Free, etc. who have manipulated the public into believing this the only acceptable form of animal captivity. Oh no that's not it, people believe that animals are FREE in sanctuaries! Nope they are still in captivity. I find it unfair that people compare zoos to sanctuaries in terms of space, zoos are limited to the space they can provide (I'm sure they wish to create elephant exhibits like TES) due to their city government and the fact that unlike sanctuaries who tend to focus on just an handful of species, zoos need to consider space for various species of animals from terrestrial to some aquatic! Sanctuaries then follow the belief animals should not breed which is a natural behavior many animals favor, so bull elephants are deprived from mating and females can't experience motherhood. And sanctuaries like Big Cat Rescue have horrible exhibits that wouldn't fly at a AZA zoo. I wanted to write this because of the current situation with the LA Zoo elephants, already people are unhappy that Billy and Tina are heading to another Zoo because they want them at a sanctuary, I remind you that they were planning to be sent to Tulsa Zoo which opened a brand new and state of the art elephant exhibit! Even when Cincinnati built their new phenomenal elephant complex, people and IDA are b*tching because the elephants are not at a sanctuary! Anyways my blood boiled finding this at Google news tab "Free Billy and Tina! Los Angeles Zoo Elephants Deserve Sanctuary, Not Another Zoo" by World Animal News, these idiots are making it sound like Tulsa as this horrible place like what have they even see the new complex, do they know the shady stuff behind elephant sanctuaries?! And of course there is the false "FREE" aspect again, no the Billy and Tina won't be free at a sanctuary, they will perish. Elephant Sanctuaries like PAWS and TES have TB outbreaks (which I not only find unethical to the elephants but also the staff risking their lives, again this would not be acceptable at a AZA Zoo!). I know that TES is AZA accredited but I I do feel they still have their anti-zoo stance happily accepting collabing with zoos to snag up their elephants. I apologize for being stubborn here, I have not look to deep into TES (I do envy their elephant complex and sure they have improved) but we shouldn't forget their shady stuff and anti-zoo philosophy that admittedly might be toned down a bit since AZA accreditation. Then you have this douche (I think a director of PAWS) when they got Toronto's elephants saying they saved them from abuse, like wtf, the zoo staff absolutely acred for their elephants and had more experience than those that bozzo with them, so disgusting and beyond disrespectful to the zoo! In my opinion, space≠quality of life. Zoos do their best to care for their elephants, and are loved by keepers and staff who know them individually (most since birth) such as their likes and preferences, something sanctuaries tend to not acknowledge it seems. I am not saying sanctuaries should be ban, no, like zoos I do acknowledge there are good sanctuaries and TES has been warming up to me a bit (only hate bone rose over the f*cking LA controversy, I really don't want Billy and Tina to be sent to a sanctuary because it just fuels the false sanctuary being paradise and worse a big victory for activits) and I cannot deny that they to have staff dedicated to their animals. Sanctuaries like zoos are important, they act as homes for former pets, surplus, or elderly animals. I just wish that both zoos and sanctuaries were equally respected. I want sanctuaries too to be criticized. It is unfair that zoos get the most hate whereas sanctuaries are beloved and can get away with anything. I'm unsure what are people stances on sanctuaries are here on this site, so please share. I guess like it is like who some are not keen of SeaWorld, I'm not too keen of sanctuaries but still have respect to the good they do.
I think people cling onto this idea from Blackfish and over animal rights sources while saying they are against Blackfish. I will never understand people believing primates are fine in captivity but not a dolphin (JFC, I support both in captivity.)
I think generally SeaWorld should take advantage of their animal collection more and expand. I have seen pufferfish in shark encounter at Orlando recently.
I agree with this one, every zoo started somewhere, however, in some cases I think it's best just to close it down and start from scratch. Like Miami Seaquarium with crumbling infrastructure, I think it's best to just let it go, which is unfortunate because they could have improved but the Dolphin Company chose the cheap way out (using non-positive reinforcement, feeding fish scraps and rotten food, etc).
I support elephant rides depending on the circumstance and support circuses depending on their practices (I've heard of amazing clean areas for circus elephants). Exotic pet ownership also depends for me.
I agree, although I do support TES since they've collaborated with zoos more and they've dropped their anti-zoo agenda, I believe they have a new owner since then and stopped being affiliated with animal right activists, not to say they don't have a bad past but I'm glad they've improved and it's better for elephants that zoos want to house to go there instead of going to some Animal rights place. I used to completely oppose sanctuaries but I think done right they would be good, not as a replacement for zoos like people think, but something to compliment them
Hi, thank you very much for your response! The blog is in Tumblr named orcinus-ocean (which I highly recommend) has greatly influenced/even changed my views on the mentioned support on circuses and other animal attractions alongside cetaceans in captivity. I also follow why-animals-do-the-thing, local-hellhound-steals-spaghetti, and orcinus-veterinarius.
Oh thank you, I have had some conversations with orcinus-veterinarius on a discord server. Orcinus-ocean I know of but they are quite infamous in the community for some things they have said (unrelated to zoos)
My bad, it was Elephant Transit Home in Sri Lanka that is hoping to release these
I agree with this, with the exception of world class zoos that has beautifully designed exhibits. As for crowds..... people are..... frustrating. One time I was at the Kansas City Zoo and their new secretary bird was about to come near the fence where I could get an optimal photo and then a bunch of elementary school kids came along singing Hells Greatest Dad from Hazbin Hotel at the top of their lungs. The secretary bird immediately retreated.
