Zoo Negara

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kelsness

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My friend just emailed me a link to PETA’s website containing an article about the cruelty that occurs at Zoo Negara in Malaysia. Zoo Negara: An Out-of-Date Facility | PETAAsiaPacific.com

I‘m traveling to Malaysia at the end of the year and of course I had planned to check out all of the tourist hotspots including this zoo. After reading this article I have definitely rethought my holiday plans.

Elephants are such beautiful creatures and should NOT be chained up, which deprives them of being free to roam and socialize.

If you visit this Zoo, you are supporting cruelty towards animals. Please join me in Boycotting the Negara Zoo, as all creatures deserve a natural life, free of cruelty
 
I would suggest you still go there and check it out for yourself, not base your opinion on a biased viewpoint.

Or are you a member of PETA, trying to push their propaganda?

:confused:

Hix
 
Wow, those 10 pictures show a really decent zoo. There's even a plaque explaining why the elephants are chained, which i think more zoo's should do.

I'm more then willing to discuss animal cruelty in zoo's, but if people start with saying "lions roam 80 kilometers a day so this zoo is cruel" then there's no point in discussing really. You find zoo's cruel, i don't.

All i can say is, if that hippo enclosure is animal cruelty (which i think you can argue), then 80% of all hippo exhibits in europe are cruel (which might, again arguably, be true).

edit: and i totally and fully agree with hix, always base ANY opinion on things you've seen for yourself!
 
What could PETA gain by making things up? Clearly the animals are caged. That's what most zoos do to animals. But these animals are not only caged but are chained up within their cages. They cant even walk the distance of their small enclosures.

I just think the Zoo should make changes before the expect peole to visit it. The cages look dirty and have random peices of junk in them as you can see from the pictures. Don't you think it's cruel to do this to an animal?
 
jwer said:
Wow, those 10 pictures show a really decent zoo. There's even a plaque explaining why the elephants are chained, which i think more zoo's should do.

I'm more then willing to discuss animal cruelty in zoo's, but if people start with saying "lions roam 80 kilometers a day so this zoo is cruel" then there's no point in discussing really. You find zoo's cruel, i don't.

All i can say is, if that hippo enclosure is animal cruelty (which i think you can argue), then 80% of all hippo exhibits in europe are cruel (which might, again arguably, be true).

edit: and i totally and fully agree with hix, always base ANY opinion on things you've seen for yourself!
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I just don't think it's right to chain any animal. If there are worse zoos than this, I'd be horrified at the conditions those animals would be kept in. So you're pretty much saying that I should go to this Zoo pay an entry fee to see these animals confined to small cages?
And I think what you've just mentioned is rather hypocrytical. Have you been to all of the Zoos in Europe. How can you say this Zoo is ethical in comparison to something you haven't seen for yourself? But I can't want to boycott a Zoo for inhumanely chaining their animals?
 
kelsness said:
What could PETA gain by making things up??
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Money, support so basically, a reason to exist?

kelsness said:
Clearly the animals are caged. That's what most zoos do to animals. But these animals are not only caged but are chained up within their cages. They cant even walk the distance of their small enclosures.?
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There are more zoo's that chain their elephants. Some of the reasons are even perfectly plausable, like making sure every elephant has a decent amount of food and isn't pushed away by the others. It's also a cultural normality in south-east asia, so you can't really blame just one zoo.

kelsness said:
I just think the Zoo should make changes before the expect peole to visit it. The cages look dirty and have random peices of junk in them as you can see from the pictures. Don't you think it's cruel to do this to an animal?
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Which cage looks dirty and i don't see ANY piece of junk in them? Many zoo's use things like plastic barrels as enrichment objects so you'll find those at about any zoo.

Some people really need to learn to make up their own mind. Go see it! Go to south-east asia, see the culture and look at the zoo's and THEN base on opinion on what YOU think, not what people want you think. I'm not telling you this zoo is great, or all zoo's are great. I'm asking you to educate yourself about all the circumstances and influences (be it cultural, financial, historical, social... anything) that build a zoo, and then judge them on what you see.
 
kelsness said:
I just don't think it's right to chain any animal. If there are worse zoos than this, I'd be horrified at the conditions those animals would be kept in.
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If I where you, i'd start with some Australian Zoo's and work your way up into south-east Asia.

kelsness said:
So you're pretty much saying that I should go to this Zoo pay an entry fee to see these animals confined to small cages?
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Yup, please do. If it's that horrible, then at least they get some money to improve their exhibits.

kelsness said:
And I think what you've just mentioned is rather hypocrytical. Have you been to all of the Zoos in Europe. How can you say this Zoo is ethical in comparison to something you haven't seen for yourself? But I can't want to boycott a Zoo for inhumanely chaining their animals?
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I never said this Zoo is ethical, because I never claimed European Zoos are ethical. I said, that you can argue they are ethical, or not. At this point I've seen over 35 European Zoos, and somewhere in between 10 and 15 european hippo exhibits. I've also seen a whole lot of pictures of European hippo exhibits, and based on that information my estimate is that around 80% of European hippo exhibits are comparable or worse then that of Zoo Negara.

I'm asking you to make up your own mind and opinion on what you see and experience, and not based on what others tell you. PETA is on one end of the "zoos are ethical" spectrum, and i'm inviting you to investigate the other side before you judge (you may find the truth to be somewhere more in the middle).

On a side note, Steve, that quote is really quite brilliant :)
 
Kelsness, go and see it yourself before taking other's words as the holy truth. Assuming you were not born yesterday, you will know what PETA is and what it stands for.

Your post inspired me to have a look at my Zoo Negara photos from January 2008. I arrived in the early morning and left late in the evening, the zoo is open into the night on some days and you will need it as the area is huge. The elephant paddock could be much larger but so many zoos sadly have undersized facilities for elephants. I do not recall seeing them chained, but they may be at night.

If you want to see Malaysian zoos, there is every reason for you to visit Zoo Negara but possibly boycott the others. As the national zoo it has to be the best. Possibly it is but I’m not sure, I was only able to visit Zoo Negara before going down to Singapore. In Europe you will commonly see leopards and pumas confined to small cages. Not so in Zoo Negara. They are in cages but large ones, filled with vegetation and places to hide. The lions (both African and Indian) and tigers (several subspecies) are in decent enclosures, I have seen worse in Europe and Australia. Perhaps the worst part is the concrete bear pits though. Zoo Negara comes nowhere close to its famous neighbour down in Singapore, but I have seen other much worse zoos.

I don’t have time to write a review of Zoo Negara here but bottom line is: go and see for yourself. And if you are unable to or feel you always have to let others fill you in on what to think, keep it for yourself mate and out of this forum, for it is not a desirable virtue.
 
kelsness said:
But I can't want to boycott a Zoo for inhumanely chaining their animals?
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Don't be silly - of course you can boycott the zoo if you feel that strongly. But don't try and convince us to join you.

Considering you haven't answered my original question:

Hix said:
Or are you a member of PETA, trying to push their propaganda?
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  • and the fact that you joined ZooChat today (28/10/09);
  • and your only posts relate to boycotting a zoo and promoting PETA (and not asking us our opinions - just telling us the zoo is cruel and should be boycotted, like you're an expert on the subject);
then I think the answer to my question is obvious.

In which case I respectfully suggest you push your one-sided opinions somewhere other than a discussion forum populated by zoo enthusiasts and zookeepers. :)

Regards

Hix
 
From the photos this zoo seems pretty good. not by western standards but for an Asian Zoo.
I particulary like the design on the monkey cage, although it does need some subsrate, being in a tropical area as it gets wet it would produce a mouldy environment, exposing the monkeys to aspergilliosis. so can understand why they dont.
 
The photos on the PETA website show the truth the PETA sees it. There are well known ways to make enclosures look worse than they actually are. One is to make the photo small, ideally it should be a close-up photo of an animal's face through bars or wire so it looks 'sad'. Second way is to take a close-up photo of an animal without anything showing except some kind of barrier in the back. The lion photo is one. The lion enclosure is actually lush and decent in size. It could be larger, but it is enough for the pair that lives there. PETA and its member Kelsness have to work harder than this.
 
kelsness said:
My friend just emailed me a link to PETA’s website
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When you read the responses to your post you just may come to the conclusion that you have reached a defining moment in your life young Kelsness.

Perhaps it's time to review your circle of "friends" and eliminate the ones who are seeking to use your naivete and idealism to further their own ends.

Please go to Zoo Negara with open eyes and an open mind. If you see something that you don't understand or don't like, ask someone about it. The staff at the zoo or anyone on this forum would be happy to discuss things with you.

If you are still unhappy then consider for a moment what a "boycott" or a ban would achieve for the animals. Absolutely nothing. All that would be achieved would be a few headlines to raise PETA's profile to help them raise even more money. Money which is not directed to doing good things for animals, by the way.

You may want to consider combining idealism with realism and get yourself into a position where you personally can actually WORK for the well being of animals rather than just shoot someone else's verbal bullets for them.
 
I am not going to argue with stupidity, it seems pointless.

PETA is rather active with Zoo Negara and would like it substituted for some artificial monkeys. :rolleyes: And for its worth, my friend .... as if the rainforests are not disappearing, are quite safe for wildlife and they can all go lovey-dovey out there. :eek:

For what it is worth: Zoo Negara may not be the epitomy of modern zoo management, it is a damn sight better than most make it out to be! :cool:
 
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