nanoboy
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I often use my camera to zoom in on birds, so technically I do see them.
ZooChat Big Year 2013
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I often use my camera to zoom in on birds, so technically I do see them.
well that's a different situation. You are focusing on a bird at the time, or taking a photo of a specific bird. But if you just take a photo of a group of birds and then later look at the photo and say "oh hey there's a such-and-such in that photo"...would you count it?
I'd be kicking myself that I didn't see it, then I'd be deliberately going to places where I'm likily to see it, just so I can tick it off.
boof said:
Years ago I was in a rainforest and could hear at least a dozen different birds all vocalising from the same dense little thicket. But I couldn't see anything. I finally realised it wasn't a dozen different species, but just one individual.
Hix
Bloody lyrebirds.
ha, same for me in the Blue Mountains. There was obviously a massive Parliament of Fowls taking place down in the forest but somehow I knew that there couldn't be that many cockatoos and kookaburras all in one spot, so I snuck in through the trees and spied a lyrebird doing his display. Awesome moment.
Well you have to be sure of what you are hearing certainly, and mimics can be a big problem there. But what about this example, I was standing on the edge of a cattail marsh and I hear the call of a Virginia Rail. After waiting the bird seems to move deeper into the reeds and eventually goes silent. Clearly there isn't another birder crawling through cattails playing a rail call, nor is a starling likely to be skulking around down there pretending to be a rail. Am I disappointed that I didn't see the rail? Sure, but do I count it? Yes. Why privilege one of the senses over others?
So, if something shows up in a photo, but you didn't actually see it on the day (and recognise it as something different), you can still count it?
Hix
I don't count it unless I see it with my own eyes. Even if I'm taking a video/photograph of it, I still make sure to see it with my own eyes. If I ever come across a scenario where there are too many birds to identify on the spot, I make sure I take a good, long look at the whole crowd to make sure I've at least glimpsed every species, and then I'll take a picture and identify them later. And I do count glimpses as seeing them.
~Thylo
nanoboy
Well-Known Member
It depends. There was once a group of waders quite far out that I couldn't see very well with my binoculars. I knew from the colour and shape that one was a red neck avocet, but I couldn't be sure because it was so far away. So, I took a few pics and zoomed in, and I was right, so I ticked it. I use my camera the way someone might use a scope, but I have a permanent record of the sighting.
That's fine - I've done the same thing.
But what if you were looking at all these waders with your binoculars, and all you could see was stilts and avocets. You take a photo and later that night when you zoom in your see an oystercatcher that you had no idea was there. Do you count it?
I wouldn't. I'd go back the next day with an agenda. And more powerful binoculars.
Hix
nanoboy
Well-Known Member
That's fine - I've done the same thing.
But what if you were looking at all these waders with your binoculars, and all you could see was stilts and avocets. You take a photo and later that night when you zoom in your see an oystercatcher that you had no idea was there. Do you count it?
I wouldn't. I'd go back the next day with an agenda. And more powerful binoculars.
Hix
Funny you mentioned oystercatchers because that happened to me. I knew there were black birds with orange beaks in the group, but only when I checked the photos at home did I realise that some were pied and some were sooty. Hell, when I spotted them through binoculars I didn't know where to look in the field guide! So, I was quite happy to count both species, even though at the time I did not realise that they were two species.
what all this comes down to is, it is your list so follow your own rules. Just so long as you're not just making stuff up and pretending you saw something you hadn't.
For myself, I wouldn't count it if it was too far to see with binoculars but I took a photo and zoomed the picture right up. I can see the photo sure, but I still didn't actually see the bird properly. I would try and get closer, and if that fails or is not possible then I didn't see it. I'll hopefully see it later elsewhere.
Same for Ituri's Virginia rail. If I can hear it calling in the reeds but I never saw it, then I never saw it. Maybe I will one day or maybe I won't. I've heard great spotted kiwi dozens of times but never managed to see one in the wild, so I don't have it on my list. It won't be on there until I actually see one. Actually little spotted kiwi never made it onto my list until last year either, even though I saw the rear end of one disappearing into the undergrowth several years prior. I knew exactly what it was, but it was only its rear end and I wanted to see one properly. So it remained "un-ticked".
For myself, I wouldn't count it if it was too far to see with binoculars but I took a photo and zoomed the picture right up. I can see the photo sure, but I still didn't actually see the bird properly. I would try and get closer, and if that fails or is not possible then I didn't see it. I'll hopefully see it later elsewhere.
Same for Ituri's Virginia rail. If I can hear it calling in the reeds but I never saw it, then I never saw it. Maybe I will one day or maybe I won't. I've heard great spotted kiwi dozens of times but never managed to see one in the wild, so I don't have it on my list. It won't be on there until I actually see one. Actually little spotted kiwi never made it onto my list until last year either, even though I saw the rear end of one disappearing into the undergrowth several years prior. I knew exactly what it was, but it was only its rear end and I wanted to see one properly. So it remained "un-ticked".
nanoboy
Well-Known Member
True, and I agree with you. However, in my case, I feel that a more experienced birder will be able to recognise the far away birds (as I was able to recognise the black swans next to the waders
) even with a low power binoculars. I, however, need to scrutinise the image in minute detail at home, so I don't feel too bad. I thought the little fleck of white on one of the oystercatchers was a reflection, but the photo analysis proved it was a pied oystercatcher.That raises another point: can you count birds that you have not had a very good view of, but are 100% sure what it is? For example, would you count a wedge tail eagle soaring hundreds of feet in the air that just appears to be a speck? (For readers that aren't aware, this eagle's silhouette is unmistakable, because of the wedge-shaped tail.)
I have two ways of accepting birds, depending on whether it is for the year list or the life list. This relates to both the paragraphs above. For a year list, many of the birds are species I have seen hundreds of times before. I can recognise a starling or a NZ pigeon or whatever from a long way away just by the way it flies. So for a year list that can count as a tick, because I am so familiar with the species I know what it is whereas someone with less experience of that species wouldn't be able to. However, if the bird is a lifer (or just a bird which I rarely see), then I want to see it well. Second-best isn't good enough for the life list. Birds of prey are a little different because quite often the only view you get is a soaring one. In that case so long as it is identifiable then it counts.True, and I agree with you. However, in my case, I feel that a more experienced birder will be able to recognise the far away birds (as I was able to recognise the black swans next to the waders
That raises another point: can you count birds that you have not had a very good view of, but are 100% sure what it is? For example, would you count a wedge tail eagle soaring hundreds of feet in the air that just appears to be a speck? (For readers that aren't aware, this eagle's silhouette is unmistakable, because of the wedge-shaped tail.)
So if I was in Australia and there was a crowd of birds on the far side of a lagoon just at the edge of binocular range, I would count the black swans and the pelicans because it is obvious what they are and I've seen them many times before. I may be reasonably positive there are red-necked avocets there too but I can't quite make out if they are or not. I don't count them (unless I can get closer for a 100% positive ID).
nanoboy
Well-Known Member
Man, you have some strict rules. And here I was thinking that you would count a bird if you saw a feather on the floor.
I'll see if I can post some pics later.
no that would go on my Feathers On The Floor list.Man, you have some strict rules. And here I was thinking that you would count a bird if you saw a feather on the floor.
For me, the rules basically come down to "I want to see a bird well".
I think of it like playing golf by yourself. I count every stroke. Close enough isn't good enough. You are only cheating yourself. I had a flock of superb parrots fly over my car a couple of months back. 99.9% sure they were superbs. Right habitat, in their range, right flight pattern or jizz but I didn't tick them because I didn't get them 100%. I hope that makes sense.
Chlindonias has summed it up best but. It's your list. Do it your way.
Chlindonias has summed it up best but. It's your list. Do it your way.
zooboy28
Well-Known Member
I picked up 24 year birds on my recent trip to Brisbane, and a couple of mammals.
Birds:
84 Little Wattlebird Anthochaera chrysoptera
85 White-plumed Honeyeater Lichenostomus penicillatus
86 Torresian Crow Corvus orru
87 Little Egret Egretta garzetta immaculata
88 White-bellied Sea Eagle Haliaeetus albicilla
89 Brahminy Kite Heliastur indus
90 Silver Gull Chroicocephalus novaehollandiae
91 Scaly-breasted Lorikeet Trichoglossus chlorolepidotus
92 Variegated Fairy-wren Malurus lamberti
93 Scarlet Honeyeater Myzomela sanguinolenta
94 Rufous Whistler Pachycephala rufiventris
95 Grey Butcherbird Cracticus torquatus
96 Spangled Drongo Dicrurus bracteatus
97 Double-barred Finch Taeniopygia bichenovii
98 Blue-faced Honeyeater Entomyzon cyanotis
99 Tawny Grassbird Megalurus timoriensis
100 Black-faced Cuckoo-Shrike Coracina novaehollandiae
101 Intermediate Egret Ardea intermedia
102 Crested Tern Thalasseus bergii
103 Australian Brush Turkey Alectura lathami
104 Little Corella Cacatua sanguinea
105 Great Cormorant Phalacrocorax carbo
106 Pied Butcherbird Cracticus nigrogularis
107 Lewin's Honeyeater Meliphaga lewinii
108 Great Egret Ardea alba modesta
109 Pied Currawong Strepera graculina
Mammals:
12 Ringtail Possum Pseudocheirus peregrinus
13 Grey-headed Flying-fox Pteropus poliocephalus
nanoboy
Well-Known Member
We visited Woodlands Historic Park yesterday (just next to the Melbourne Airport), and had a moderately good day of birding. If anyone is in the area and wants to visit, the 'back paddock' is the place to be.
We saw many red-capped and flame robins, and my wife is convinced that she saw a male pink robin. I am a bit disappointed that by the time I ran to where she was, it flew away. She insists that the pink chest was very distinct from 'red' and 'flame', and that it was as bright as a highlighter marker.
I am also disappointed that a 'red wattlebird' we dismissed in poor light, just might have been a spiny-cheeked honeyeater. Needless to say, we will be visiting again in spring.
We saw many red-capped and flame robins, and my wife is convinced that she saw a male pink robin. I am a bit disappointed that by the time I ran to where she was, it flew away. She insists that the pink chest was very distinct from 'red' and 'flame', and that it was as bright as a highlighter marker.
I am also disappointed that a 'red wattlebird' we dismissed in poor light, just might have been a spiny-cheeked honeyeater. Needless to say, we will be visiting again in spring.
Since one year I have been looking for an invasive species in a forest near my house. I had seen reports on Tamias sibiricus although the people reporting them did not want to point to the exact location. Which for an invasive species is a but unusual to do but ok. Finally yesterday I had a nice viewing of a Tamias sibiricus. Although an invasive species it is quite nice to be able to tag it after all the effort. In the end me not being familiar with tamias-species seems to have tricked me to search in the wrong areas of the forest.
just returned from Bulgaria and tomorrow of to the pyrenees.
In total the Bulgaria trip yielded over 160 bird species for the whole group, unfortunately I missed species as rock nuthatch and long legged buzzard, but overall I saw 44 new bird species for 2013, 13 new mammal species for the year, 9 new reptile species and 1 new amphibian species for 2013. A list will appear in 2,5 week when I have returned from the pyrenees
In total the Bulgaria trip yielded over 160 bird species for the whole group, unfortunately I missed species as rock nuthatch and long legged buzzard, but overall I saw 44 new bird species for 2013, 13 new mammal species for the year, 9 new reptile species and 1 new amphibian species for 2013. A list will appear in 2,5 week when I have returned from the pyrenees
ah the competition is hotting up! Next Chlidonias off to Asia, Hix off to Uganda, lintworm maybe still off to Madagascar......We shall leave those North Americans in the dust, mwahahaha!
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