ZooChat Challenge Global 2024

ZooBinh

ZooBinh

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
5+ year member
Happy 2024! I, ZooBinh, am honored to be your host again for this year’s edition of the ZooChat Global Challenge.

Before we get started, let’s give credit to the creator of our beloved ZooChat challenges: @Shorts. And of course, thanks to @filipinos for bringing the game to the global stage, and to @ThylacineAlive for hosting the past several years— including last year’s 10th-anniversary edition! I also want to extend a very special thank you to @TinoPup for helping with the 2023 challenge.

Alright! This year, I drew special inspiration from…well, the year 2024 itself! It’s a leap year! The challenge is Leapers: Animals that Jump, Hop, and well, Leap! Below, I’ve selected some animal groups that are known for their abilities to pounce and bounce for us to seek.

Mammals-

  • Family Hypsiprymnodontidae (Rat kangaroo)
  • Family Potoroidae (Bettongs and potoroos)
  • Family Macropodidae (Kangaroos, wallabies, etc.)
  • Family Petauridae (Gliding possums)
  • Select Rodents:
    • Subfamily Dipodomyinae (Kangaroo mice and rats)
    • Family Petedidae (Springhares)
    • Family Dipodidae (Jerboas)
    • Subfamily Nesomyinae (Malagasy nesomyids)
    • Subfamily Gerbilinae (Gerbils and relatives)
  • Select Hooved Mammals:
    • Family Equiidae (Horses)
    • Family Cervidae (Deer)
    • Subfamily Antilopinae (Gazelles etc)
    • Subfamily Caprinae (Sheeps and Goats)
    • Family Delphinidae (Dolphins)
  • Family Leporidae (Rabbits and Hares)
  • Family Felidae (Cats)
  • Family Cheirogaleidae (Mouse, giant mouse, dwarf and fork-marked lemurs)
  • Family Lepilemuridae (Lepilemurs)
  • Family Lemuridae (Bamboo, true, and ruffed lemurs)
  • Family Indriidae (Woolly lemurs, sifakas, and indri)
  • Family Daubentoniidae (Aye-aye)
  • Family Galagidae (Galagos)
  • Family Tarsiidae (Tarsiers)
  • Family Callictrichidae (Marmosets and tamarins)
  • Family Cebidae (Squirrel monkeys and capuchins)
  • Family Aotidae (Night monkeys)
  • Family Pithecidae (Titis, sakis, and uakaris)
  • Family Atelidae (Howlers and co.)
  • Family Cercopithecidae (Old World Monkeys)
Birds-

  • Order Sphenisciformes (Penguins)

Reptiles-

  • Genus Chrysopelea (Flying Snakes)
  • Order Crocodilia (Crocodiles and alligators)
Amphibians-

  • Order Anura (Frogs and Toads)
Fish-

  • Family Myliobatidae (Eagle Rays)
  • Family Mobulidae (Devil Rays)
  • Subfamily Oxudercinae (Mudskippers)

Invertebrates-

  • Order Orthoptera (Crickets, Grasshoppers, Katydids)
  • Family Salticidae (Jumping Spiders)

I’d like to note that (similar to the 2022 nocturnal challenge) this list is subjective, as the theme itself is somewhat ambiguous. Therefore, the list probably doesn’t encompass every animal that can jump, leap, etc. However, I believe did my best to create a fun list with a good variety of animals.

Again, here are the rules:

1. You have to actually see the animal, even if just for a second. You don't score if you visit a collection but don't see the animal (harsh, but fair);

2. Proof via photographs is not required, your word is your bond;

3. All entries must be presented in numbered list form, with scientific names included where necessary (simply to make it easier to keep track of and to avoid uncountable species being slipped in due to vagueness). Obviously, species do not need Latin names included, but this is not an avenue to slip in inadmissible species with vagueness;

4. You have to see the animal via normal public access (zookeeper for the day or photography days behind the scenes do not count) during normal public opening hours (i.e. no scoring because you know the keeper and can get access before/after hours). Basically, the species has to be seen as Joe Public would;

5. Any severely limited opening or private collections don't count for this challenge. Controversial yes, but see the previous point and it isn't fair to include a handful of days these collections might be open to the public as this might logistically disadvantage a large number of people;

6. Only public zoological collections, museums, public park displays, etc. count, animals seen at farms or pet stores do not count;

7. Report/update your progress on this thread as you go along. There is no official deadline to join; however, anyone who joins the game after May 31 can only count eligible species from their two most recent zoo visits;

8. Where open-ended challenges are concerned, only one subspecies per species can be counted;

9. Controversial entries due to splits will be discussed on a case-by-case basis

10. Domestics do not count, the animals must be in a wild form. You can count a species that's been domesticated just as long as the animal you're looking at isn't;

11. Hybrid animals do not count;

12. Wild animals do not count, all species must be seen in captivity under all the conditions listed above;

13. Anyone caught severely violating any of the above rules and/or participating in extremely unsportsmanlike conduct on or even off the forum is subject to disqualification (these are made for fun, by all means, take them seriously but please do not ruin the fun for anyone else. I do not expect to have any problems, but I've added this in just in case);

14. Any issues with any of the above rules are open to discussion but the rules are set and any decisions made are final;

15. Apart from the unlikely event that someone gets to see all the species potentially viewable by 12/31/24, the winner will be deemed to be the person who's seen the most on that date.

If any aspects of this year’s challenge potentially need to be changed, updates will be posted within the week.

Alright, I’m hopping off to enjoy the rest of my night. Have fun leaping into the new year and as always, good luck visiting zoos!
 
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Interesting idea of a challenge, I doubt I'll see much that counts, but it'll be interesting to give it a try anyways. I'm also intrigued by this challenge including invertebrates, something I can't remember any other zoo chat challenge including. Given that crickets are amongst the inverts that count, though, leads me to wonder: can we include feeder insects (of valid species) seen inside reptile exhibits at zoos? Or are these not considered captive wildlife for purposes of this challenge?

Noticing that some marsupials count, any particular reason for omitting Potoridae, the bettongs, which are also known for hopping? Seconding @CGSwans, while not all primates leap, at the very least lemurs are, in my opinion, an obvious choice for a challenge about leaping.
 
CGSwans said:
Umm. Obvious question. What about primates? At the very least arboreal species should count.
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Neil chace said:
Interesting idea of a challenge, I doubt I'll see much that counts, but it'll be interesting to give it a try anyways. I'm also intrigued by this challenge including invertebrates, something I can't remember any other zoo chat challenge including.

Noticing that some marsupials count, any particular reason for omitting Potoridae, the bettongs, which are also known for hopping? Seconding @CGSwans, while not all primates leap, at the very least lemurs are, in my opinion, an obvious choice for a challenge about leaping.
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Now that you mention it, I really did miss the opportunity to add sifakas to the list... :oops:.

I'm (somewhat?) open to maybe add a few animals to the eligible list- if people are down for it. But as I was developing the challenge, I had to make a limit somewhere as the theme itself and there's obviously already a very wide variety of animals I've chosen. I'm tracking the entries and moderating the challenge and at the end of the day, I don't want to make this too much work for myself. I hope that's understandable.

And to @Neil chace , no particular reason for omitting bettongs. An honest answer would just be simple oversight, like with the sifakas. Again, I hope it's understandable that I created a subjective list- but I may be willing to add to the list if it's really wanted.
 
I understand that. I think though that unfortunately the current list is diverse but not deep. Apart from the rodents, which will be scattered here and there, and the frogs, this game is going to peter out fairly quickly for most players, and the zoos where there’s a meaningful number of relevant species are going to be pretty patchy.
 
CGSwans said:
I understand that. I think though that unfortunately the current list is diverse but not deep. Apart from the rodents, which will be scattered here and there, and the frogs, this game is going to peter out fairly quickly for most players, and the zoos where there’s a meaningful number of relevant species are going to be pretty patchy.
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Agreed, from a US perspective, anurans and caprines are the only groups here I tend to see more than a small number of species from each year. Compared to past challenges, there seems to be only a small number of species in this challenge that are reasonably prevalent in zoos.
 
Neil chace said:
omitting Potoridae, the bettongs, which are also known for hopping? Seconding @CGSwans, while not all primates leap, at the very least lemurs are, in my opinion, an obvious choice for a challenge about leaping.
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Indeed - including groups like springhare and jerboas but omitting the marsupial group which are closest to being direct equivalents to these is a bit of an oversight :P

CGSwans said:
I understand that. I think though that unfortunately the current list is diverse but not deep. Apart from the rodents, which will be scattered here and there, and the frogs, this game is going to peter out fairly quickly for most players, and the zoos where there’s a meaningful number of relevant species are going to be pretty patchy.
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Yeah, this is the crux of the problem really - it's not going to have anywhere near the legs that prior challenges have, ironically enough given the subject matter!

I think that the best option would be to include the bettongs and allies, all non-siman primates and (given the fact the sole reptilian listed is very scarce in captivity) perhaps a handful of additional reptilian examples too, for instance Cuban Crocodile.
 
What if you limited the frogs to a couple of noted ‘leaping’ groups, like dart frogs and tree frogs, and then included prosimians and monkeys (perhaps excluding baboons)? That will mean fewer species to track late in the game, but more relevant species at more zoos.
 
ZooBinh said:
I'm (somewhat?) open to maybe add a few animals to the eligible list- if people are down for it. But as I was developing the challenge, I had to make a limit somewhere as the theme itself and there's obviously already a very wide variety of animals I've chosen. I'm tracking the entries and moderating the challenge and at the end of the day, I don't want to make this too much work for myself. I hope that's understandable.
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Without "piling on", as it were, I totally agree with the others that there may be a range of groups here but the individual numbers are going to be small.

And, without wanting to be mean, but with regards to "I don't want to make this too much work for myself", frankly if you don't want to do the work for it then you should have handed it over to someone who does. It's kind of insulting to the people who are going to be participating in the game if the person running it doesn't want to bother putting in much effort.
 
Would Deer and Pronghorn be considered as well along with flying squirrels and I am asking because I have seen a white tailed deer leap over the front of a car before and Also I know that pronghorns can leap over fences.
 
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I (very very roughly) worked out the numbers for the groups as given. About the only groups with a good number of species are the cats, penguins, anurans, probably orthopterans, and (for Australians only) macropods and petaurids. But even for these groups probably the only actually large one is the anurans.


Macropods - for non-Australians most will be limited to five or fewer species. For once Australians would have an advantage,

Petaurids - again Australians have an advantage but still only a handful of species. The majority of non-Australians have only one species (Sugar Glider).

Rodents - Australians have none, but even non-Australians wouldn't be able to get more than a handful from those options.

Artiodactyls - three are single-species options (Springbok, Klipspringer, Impala), and I think only Springbok is common enough to be seen by most people. Dolphins would be two or three (most people probably only one?). Gazelles and caprines are one of the few groups where the options are more than "just a handful" and even those aren't great.

Leporids - genuinely want to know who is going to be seeing wild species of leporids in any zoos. There are extremely few options here.

Cats - one of the few groups with a larger number of species

Penguins - about a dozen possible species (certainly fewer in reality).

Flying Snakes - anyone lucky enough to see one of these has one species added to their list.

Anurans - the only group with an actual large number of species to find.

Fish - the rays and mudskippers combined might be, what, five or so species?

Orthopterans - potentially a large number, but I suspect there won't actually be many in reality for most people.

Jumping Spiders - Given that most species are tiny, I don't think there would be a lot to be found in zoos, although I do like that invertebrates are being included.
 
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Excited to participate once again, especially since I’ll be able to go global for the first time this year!
 
Chlidonias said:
I (very very roughly) worked out the numbers for the groups as given. About the only groups with a good number of species are the cats, penguins, anurans, probably orthopterans, and (for Australians only) macropods and petaurids. But even for these groups probably the only actually large one is the anurans.


Macropods - for non-Australians most will be limited to five or fewer species. For once Australians would have an advantage,

Petaurids - again Australians have an advantage but still only a handful of species. The majority of non-Australians have only one species (Sugar Glider).

Rodents - Australians have none, but even non-Australians wouldn't be able to get more than a handful from those options.

Artiodactyls - three are single-species options (Springbok, Klipspringer, Impala), and I think only Springbok is common enough to be seen by most people. Dolphins would be two or three (most people probably only one?). Gazelles and caprines are one of the few groups where the options are more than "just a handful" and even those aren't great.

Leporids - genuinely want to know who is going to be seeing wild species of leporids in any zoos. There are extremely few options here.

Cats - one of the few groups with a larger number of species

Penguins - about a dozen possible species (certainly fewer in reality).

Flying Snakes - anyone lucky enough to see one of these has one species added to their list.

Anurans - the only group with an actual large number of species to find.

Fish - the rays and mudskippers combined might be, what, five or so species?

Orthopterans - potentially a large number, but I suspect there won't actually be many in reality for most people.

Jumping Spiders - Given that most species are tiny, I don't think there would be a lot to be found in zoos, although I do like that invertebrates are being included.
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This is what ZTL (so Europe including Russia, scattered Middle East collections, New Zealand, Singapore and Taiwan) give the following results:
Marsupials - 21
Cats - 33
Gazelles and other antelope - 12
Caprines - 12
Lagomorphs - 6
Gerbils - 20 (but a bunch of these will just be in Russia)
Jerboas - 7 (4 only in Russia)
Springhare - 1
Kangaroo rats - 1
Malagasy rodents - none?
Dolphins - 6

Penguins - 11

Frogs - 274

Eagle and devil rays - 14 (this includes the entire family including cownose rays)
Mudskippers - 6

Obviously these numbers would increase at least slightly once North America, Australia and the rest of Asia are considered, but it’s a good sample to start with.

It seems fairly obvious that amphibians are *way* over-weighted. Apart from frogs, it’s about 150 species in the ZTL area, excluding the inverts which aren’t listed on ZTL. That’s not too bad, but the problem is that they’re mostly going to be quite uncommon species.

So we kind of have the worst of both worlds, as currently constructed. One overwhelmingly large category, and a grab-bag of others that will mostly come as a couple of species here and there.

I’ll repeat my suggestion to choose a smaller subset of frog families. Otherwise, we’re going to do a *lot* of book-keeping to keep track of what frogs have and haven’t been listed. Then, if we added prosimians and (I would argue at least New World) monkeys I think it’s pretty well balanced in gameplay terms.
 
CGSwans said:
This is what ZTL (so Europe including Russia, scattered Middle East collections, New Zealand, Singapore and Taiwan) give the following results:
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How are you getting the numbers? I just looked at the marsupials and got 15 macropods and two gliders, whereas you give a figure of 21?

And I was surprised at your 6 lagomorphs and so I looked at them and only see three (Lepus europeaus, Lepus timidus, and Oryctolagus cuniculus).
 
I was using the Expert Search filters. I don’t promise there aren’t errors, but I did just double check the lagomorphs and confirmed six species are listed as present.

Did you count bettongs? I was inferring from the above they are included.
 
CGSwans said:
I was using the Expert Search filters. I don’t promise there aren’t errors, but I did just double check the lagomorphs and confirmed six species are listed as present.

Did you count bettongs? I was inferring from the above they are included.
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I think you are miscounting due to the way ZTL lists subspecies separately and also lists generic or unknown populations separately. Which means probably all your numbers are over-counts.
 
Use the expert search filter for lagomorphs and see for yourself. You’re half-right, I accidentally counted Lepus europaeus twice, but there’s still a total of five.

I’m aware of the possible source of over-counts, which is why I’m allowing for errors, like the above.
 
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