ZooChat Challenge UK 2014

[Shorts]

Three words: Old world primates.

African, Asian, Apes, Monkeys, Prosimians -all of the beauties included.

I've pondered long and hard to again come up with a challenge "with legs" and hope I've cracked it. I think this one's a real marathon, rather than a sprint, and hopefully will keep running for most of the year. The winner will most likely need to be someone who's well traveled and is as happy to visit some obscure little collections as well as the big places. Whilst a handful of larger collections will give someone a substantial score I believe it'll be the odd species at the smaller and (often) out of way collections (and peoples willingness to go out of the way to visit them) that will ultimately decide the winner. I'm hoping a number of lesser-visited places gain some benefit, exposure and (where appropriate) appreciation as a result of this year's challenge.

Compared with last year's challenge (cats) I'd hope they'd be generally less of a random factor as (mouse lemurs and a few others aside) primates tend to be a little more showy/active -that's no guarantee though and no refunds from me if you hike up to the Highland Wildlife Park and the Japanese Macaques are off-show.

Another interesting factor, compared to the two previous challenges, is that the 2014 challenge is far less prescriptive in the collections needed to be visited to win. Whilst certain collections (such as Twycross) will probably be needed to be visited to underpin chances of winning a combination of many species being represented in a number of collections and some species only being present at one place means that there is most likely more than one way of winning this challenge. Hopefully this helps smooth out geographical advantages to a significant extent.

For the record I'm not expecting anyone to see all possible species in the year -they'd have to be very obsessive and time and money rich to cover all the traveling (and have no inclination to use those resources to travel outside the UK). I'm not really expecting anyone to hit Highland Wildlife Park (Japanese Macaques), Porfell (Bonnet Macaque), Thrigby/Gentleshaw (Stump-tailed Macaques) and Blackpool (Mouse Lemur) in the same year. Basically I'm hoping it'll be a fun challenge that many can get involved in.

I'm keeping the challenge to a species level as I don't want to get bogged down in the quagmire of debating validity of sub-species and/or genetic purity of specific animals. Taxonomy is not the greatest strength of mine so I'll rely on others to challenge anyone trying to sneak sub-species in and, if necessary, I'll take appropriate counsel for assistance on any related debates. My decision on any of these squabbles is "final" (subject to better evidence being presented and new scientific findings).

To be honest I'm not sure of the (current) maximum number of species potentially viewable in the UK. Please accept my apologies for this but I've been renovating a house (I moved in the weekend before Christmas) for the last six or so months and "hobby time" has been (too) scarce. I'm sure someone will come along with a summary in due course.

For clarification, rules are as follows:

1. You have to actually see the animal, even if just for a second. You don't score if you visit a collection but don't see the animal (harsh, but fair);
2. Proof via photographs is not required, your word is your bond;
3. You have to see the animal via normal public access (i.e. not including zookeeper for the day or photography days behind the scenes) during normal public opening hours (i.e. no scoring because you know the keeper and can get access before/after hours). Basically the species has to be seen as Joe Public would;
4. Any limited opening or private collections (e.g. Heythrop, RSCC, WHF, and any similar collections or refuges) don't count for this challenge. Controversial I know, but see previous point and I didn't think it fair to include a handful of days these collections might be open to the public as this might logistically disadvantage a large number of people. If RSCC does "open" to any significant extent during the year I'll confirm whether opening is sufficient (unlimited) enough to be included in the challenge -after all Flamingoland is not open all year, but would be included as it's open for sufficient swathes of the year);
5. Report/update your progress on this thread as you go along (let's say mandatory reporting from fifteen species and above);
6. Except for the unlikely event that someone gets to see all the species potentially seeable by 31/12/14 the winner will be deemed to be the person(s) who's seen the most at that date;
7. My (final) decision is final but I'm open to discussion and debate on any specific points.

Right, do your Zootierliste research, get your atlases out and Satnavs set*, go!!

*or smart phones for you "techno kids"

 

[zoogiraffe]

Have just done a quick bit of maths and I could be on 10 after the first day and 30 after 5days of the challenge and that just from planned visits!!I think I could have fun with this one!

 

[pipaluk]

Have just done a quick bit of maths and I could be on 10 after the first day and 30 after 5days of the challenge and that just from planned visits!!I think I could have fun with this one!

Chester & Twycross by any chance? Lucky you, if i make my regular Whipsnade visit at the weekend i'll be on 2!!

 

[zoogiraffe]

Chester & Twycross by any chance? Lucky you, if i make my regular Whipsnade visit at the weekend i'll be on 2!!

How did you guess,that said I will not say what my total could be by the end of the month just from planned visits,that are already almost sorted that said ther will be somebody on the same total as me,if it all comes off!

 

[lamna]

Just to be clear, this is about all primates except humans and New World monkeys?

That's sounds like a pretty good challenge. I can probably get a decent number of species within bus distance, including some pretty rare ones.

 

[pipaluk]

There are over 70 species and as Shorts has said it is unlikely anyone will get them all, unless they go to Wales, Scotland, Cornwall & the Isle of Wight in the same year!
A winning score is likely to be somewhere near the 70 mark. My guess 68.

 

[zooman]

Hi Shorts,

A great idea, it seems very UK focused ATM, however l am sure this competition is open to the Zoochat global community.

Wondering does the UK have more variety of primates than the USA?

I have a couple of trips planned ths year, will be interesting to keep count.

 

[Shorts]

Just to be clear, this is about all primates except humans and New World monkeys?

Yep, that's the long and short(s) of it. Never thought to specifically exclude humans but, to clarify, they're excluded (unless a zoo sets up a long-term exhibit, not a one week publicity stunt).

That's sounds like a pretty good challenge.

Thanks, I do try.

 

[Shorts]

There are over 70 species and as Shorts has said it is unlikely anyone will get them all, unless they go to Wales, Scotland, Cornwall & the Isle of Wight in the same year!
A winning score is likely to be somewhere near the 70 mark. My guess 68.

Nice analysis/summary. Is 68 your target then?

 

[Shorts]

A great idea, it seems very UK focused ATM, however l am sure this competition is open to the Zoochat global community.

The UK Challenge is open to the global community if they want to come to the UK zoos. As previously stated, I don't think the challenges can work on a global scale as different countries have different (species) concentrations and with larger countries (such as the US) geographical placement can confer great advantages, and severely distort the fairness, in the challenge -it's difficult working out a challenge that's reasonably fair to those spread throughout the UK (I can hear you laughing at what we consider "big distances"). That said, I've absolutely no objections to people setting up similar country specific challenges (in that countries forums), if they're well worked out and enough people get interested they're great fun. Similarly, if someone wants to try a world challenge so be it -I just think geographical distances and differences would make it impossible to set up an anywhere-near-unbiased/fair challenge.

Wondering does the UK have more variety of primates than the USA?

Good question, to which I don't know the answer (since ISIS is now effectively unavailable/out of date). My instinct, given the size, money and sheer number of zoos in the US, is that the US would have more quite a bit more variety. Then again, an east coast zoo could have exactly the same species as a zoo in the mid-west or on the west coast and visitor numbers would probably not suffers a result so who knows? I'm certain, though, that each country will have some species the other doesn't.

 

[gentle lemur]

There are over 70 species and as Shorts has said it is unlikely anyone will get them all, unless they go to Wales, Scotland, Cornwall & the Isle of Wight in the same year!
A winning score is likely to be somewhere near the 70 mark. My guess 68.

I would not expect that total to remain constant during the year. I have no information of planned changes, but I'm sorry to say that I would not be surprised if natural causes remove one or two species.

Alan

 

[pipaluk]

Nice analysis/summary. Is 68 your target then?

Unlike last year, i would need to do an awful lot of miles to even get close to winning! I doubt i'll get to 60.
My nearest zoos Linton, Shepreth, Colchester, will give me a few of the rarer ones though.
I doubt i'll make it to any of the distant places, but i planned to go to Twycross, Howletts, Paignton & Monkeyworld, having not been last year, all of which will help. First visits to Cotswold, Dudley and YWP (depending on a particular arrival) may be useful too.
I made the total 74 or 75, depending on the purple-faced langur at Cotswold, which there seems to be a doubt about. I'm probably one or two out and as Gentle Lemur says a few may disappear over the year.

 

[Snowy Owl]

depending on the purple-faced langur at Cotswold, which there seems to be a doubt about.

I'm not that keen on primates, but I've just got back from Cotswold and there is 1 purple-faced langur left in the enclosure with the lar gibbons.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

This is going to be fun!

Out of curiosity I just did a rough tally of the qualifying taxa I saw in 2013, and came up with a total of 56. As such, my personal target will be to hit 57 which may be tricky as two or three of the species I saw in 2013 may not be around for long.

As noted above, anyone who visits Twycross sooner rather than later may get a decent lead, as that collection holds a few species which a) cannot be found elsewhere b) are getting on in years and may not be around much longer.

 

[zooman]

The UK Challenge is open to the global community if they want to come to the UK zoos. As previously stated, I don't think the challenges can work on a global scale as different countries have different (species) concentrations and with larger countries (such as the US) geographical placement can confer great advantages, and severely distort the fairness, in the challenge -it's difficult working out a challenge that's reasonably fair to those spread throughout the UK (I can hear you laughing at what we consider "big distances"). That said, I've absolutely no objections to people setting up similar country specific challenges (in that countries forums), if they're well worked out and enough people get interested they're great fun. Similarly, if someone wants to try a world challenge so be it -I just think geographical distances and differences would make it impossible to set up an anywhere-near-unbiased/fair challenge.
QUOTE]

HI Shorts,

If only l paid attention to what l read.... "2014 ZooChat UK Challenge" could have answered my question!

Still a shame its not global :[

 

[lamna]

Looks like I get to be first. Got ten from Dudley.

Dudley 02/01/13
1. Gelada, Theropithecus gelada
2. Celebes crested macaque, Macaca nigra
3. Ring-tailed lemur, Lemur catta
4. Black lemur, Eulemur macaco
5. Collared brown lemur, Eulemur collaris
6. Black-and-white ruffed lemur, Varecia variegata
7. Common chimpanzee, Pan troglodytes
8. Bornean orangutan, Pongo pygmaeus
9. Red ruffed lemur, Varecia rubra
10. Lar gibbon, Hylobates lar

I have to say I'm surprised how few old world monkeys there were. No gurnons, no langurs, no mangabeys, no colobus and no vervets. Is it just Dudley or are other collections similarly lacking?

 

[Pertinax]

I have to say I'm surprised how few old world monkeys there were. No gurnons, no langurs, no mangabeys, no colobus and no vervets. Is it just Dudley or are other collections similarly lacking?

No, its not just Dudley. Many UK collections are similarly lacking nowadays apart from Twycross, and in their case they have no Mangabeys or Baboons either.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

In fact pretty much nowhere at all has vervet monkeys - not even Twycross.

A thought has occurred to me in terms of the range of collections qualifying for the contest - due to the unique circumstances which could come into play in the UK this year, we may start the year with quite a few collections which might be removed from eligibility later in the year due to the referendum on Scottish independence taking place on 18/09/2014. Just in case the referendum gives independence to Scotland, we need an agreement on what the stance on Scottish collections would be in this eventuality.

We have two options I feel:

1) If we are to be very precise with the definition of "UK collections" and thus disqualify collections like Edinburgh and Blair Drummond in the event that Scotland gains independence, we presumably will not be permitted to count collections in areas which are not officially part of the UK, although counted as protectorates of the same - for instance Jersey Zoo and Curraghs.

2) If we are to agree that in order to keep places like Edinburgh and HWP eligible either way, we deem any collection in the British Isles - including those not actually part of the UK - to be countable for the challenge, this would have the side effect of permitting us to count collections like Dublin or Fota in the challenge.

 

[pipaluk]

In fact pretty much nowhere at all has vervet monkeys - not even Twycross.

A thought has occurred to me in terms of the range of collections qualifying for the contest - due to the unique circumstances which could come into play in the UK this year, we may start the year with quite a few collections which might be removed from eligibility later in the year due to the referendum on Scottish independence taking place on 18/09/2014. Just in case the referendum gives independence to Scotland, we need an agreement on what the stance on Scottish collections would be in this eventuality.

We have two options I feel:

1) If we are to be very precise with the definition of "UK collections" and thus disqualify collections like Edinburgh and Blair Drummond in the event that Scotland gains independence, we presumably will not be permitted to count collections in areas which are not officially part of the UK, although counted as protectorates of the same - for instance Jersey Zoo and Curraghs.

2) If we are to agree that in order to keep places like Edinburgh and HWP eligible either way, we deem any collection in the British Isles - including those not actually part of the UK - to be countable for the challenge, this would have the side effect of permitting us to count collections like Dublin or Fota in the challenge.

Interesting point. I would suggest certainly anything seen in Scotland whilst it is part of the UK has to count, whether those collections stand until year end is i guess Shorts decision.
Similarly, if someone sees something at an open day at Rscc in March, i would not expect that sighting to count if they started opening full time from May!
Will Scotland become independent immediately anyway?

 

[lamna]

Scotland is fairly unlikely to become independent, but if they do I can think of two good options.

1. Expand the challenge to the British Isles, so Ireland, Scotland and the various non-quite UK islands all count.
2. Make the challenge for all regions that are part of the United Kingdom on January 1 2014.

Personally I like 1 better.

While we're being pedantic, what is the status of zoos in British Overseas Territories?