ZooChat Cup finals: Beauval vs Plzen
- Thread starter CGSwans
- Start date
I don't know anything about Plzen but Beauval I think has the safe win here. They have a fantastic manatee pool, probably the best hippo exhibit in Europe, a nice sea lion pool and a very nice penguin exhibit. I'm thinking 2-1 Beauval so far, since I haven't really heard of Plzen having anything notable in this area.
I think that the Czech Rivers complex at Plzen is probably worthy of a point, but I agree, not really Plzen's strength.
3-0 Beauval is completely unwarranted given the extremely high quality of the Czech River complex at Plzen, along with their pretty damn good collection and displays of wetland birds, but it is certainly a weak point for the collection - so I think 2-1 Beauval is the way to go.
As such my arguments in this thread, if I have the time and spoons to lay them out properly, will probably be devoted to converting the 3-0 Beauval voters away from their stance
...which, I believe, is within the currently-offshow tropical dome
As such my arguments in this thread, if I have the time and spoons to lay them out properly, will probably be devoted to converting the 3-0 Beauval voters away from their stance
...which, I believe, is within the currently-offshow tropical dome
3-0 Beauval is completely unwarranted given the extremely high quality of the Czech River complex at Plzen, along with their pretty damn good collection and displays of wetland birds, but it is certainly a weak point for the collection - so I think 2-1 Beauval is the way to go.
As such my arguments in this thread, if I have the time and spoons to lay them out properly, will probably be devoted to converting the 3-0 Beauval voters away from their stance
...which, I believe, is within the currently-offshow tropical dome
No...There is still the manatee pool in the gorilla house...
Would like to hear from @Rayane about why he/she voted in favour of Plzen. Beauval has a wonderful hippo exhibit, probably up there with the best in Europe and even the world, a great penguin exhibit accompanying a good sea lion pool and a large and lush manatee pool mixed with around 8 species of Amazonian fish and other river species. There is also an exhibit for Ocellate river stingrays in the Gorilla house, a very large flamingo exhibit and finally a pelican exhibit with multiple lakes. Beauval also has multiple tanks of Great Barrier reef fish in their Australian house.
Plzen is lucky that this tie wasn't delayed by a couple of weeks because Beauval would have what looks like a fantastic Giant otter exhibit, an equally excellent Sunda gharial exhibit and quite a few other Amazonian fish exhibits along with of course the new Manatee pool.
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Thought they'd all been moved out and this now stands empty?
Surely the at least the less good old manatee pool counts for this challenge? The manatees are now in the bigger, better exhibit in the new Equatorial Dome, offshow for an interim period on a week. Are we seriously going to discount the manatee pool despite them being only recently taken off show...?
@CGSwans ?
Don't think it is really fair to discount the manatees just because they are temporarily off-show. It either means we simply count their old exhibit or count the new exhibit, which I have measurements for and pictures of.
I also forgot to mention the pygmy hippo exhibit upcoming to the dome, although it doesn't count, just worth keeping in mind that Beauval is addressing their Aquatics area even if it is quite good already.
You do know that listing all the things they will have in the future, and which you anticipate will be excellent, slightly comes across as if you're trying to count them (and encourage others to also do so) whilst maintaining an illusion of not counting them, don't you?
insofar as much as it is effectively "I could mention XYZ and use it as evidence but I can't, so I won't mention the fact XYZ will be great or use this as evidence, even though XYZ would make great evidence"I'll merely note that although you were mistaken, when you believed the cheetahs at Chester had already left their main exhibit a few days ago you did try to argue it should therefore not be counted
That said, I would also be interested to hear an answer to this point!
As noted, although I am arguing strongly against Beauval deserving a clean sweep, neither do I think Plzen merits a lead.
As noted, although I am arguing strongly against Beauval deserving a clean sweep, neither do I think Plzen merits a lead.
I'll merely note that although you were mistaken, when you believed the cheetahs at Chester had already left their main exhibit a few days ago you did try to argue it should therefore not be counted
Oh no, that I did not
I merely said that the replacement exhibit they were now in should be taken into account.
By that reckoning, the manatee pool in the Equatorial Dome should be counted, because we do know how it looks to an extent...
That having been said, I have heard brilliant things about Plzen's native fish tank (mostly from TLD but others have as well), so that certainly shouldn't go unnoticed. However, I think Beauval comprehensively eclipses Plzen in all other domains and in my book that makes it deserve a 3-0 win.
However, I can certainly see why others would vote 2-1. Beauval perhaps isn't quite strong enough on this category to totally win against Plzen. On the other hand, I am curious to find out by what reckoning @Rayane has made the call to vote 2-1 to Plzen, because I feel as if I am perhaps missing something that makes Plzen better than it seems at first glance.
So, when you hadn't heard about them having anything notable you voted 2-1 Beauval, but finding out about Plzen's notable exhibits made you deduct a point from them and upgrade to 3-0 Beauval?
In any case, I'll hopefully be posting a few bits and bobs to make my case a little further.
In your first post, where you state that you are voting 2-1 Beauval, you specifically mention both the Hippo and Penguin exhibits as a reason to vote for Beauval. You simply cannot say you "forgot" about these exhibits.
Or indeed delete your post the moment you are caught out
That was my mistake, although the second reason was certainly part of the reason
Well, I visited both of them a year ago and even though Beauval does really well on that aspect, I really enjoyed Plzen river complex more than anything. I like the outside Pygmy hippo exhibit. The waterfowls collection is really nice as well and the pond close the australian enclosures is pleasant. Same goes for the Steamerduck - penguins aviary.
The Hippo exhibit at Beauval is excellent but I couldn’t enjoy it, the area gets really busy with lots of visitors. Overall my experience in Plzen was more pleasant, and the simple yet the complete Czech river complex made me vote 2-1 Plzen. But I could switch my vote if arguments are made against my opinion.
The Hippo exhibit at Beauval is excellent but I couldn’t enjoy it, the area gets really busy with lots of visitors. Overall my experience in Plzen was more pleasant, and the simple yet the complete Czech river complex made me vote 2-1 Plzen. But I could switch my vote if arguments are made against my opinion.
Beauval doesn't just have the hippos, and I'm not sure you are meant to judge an exhibit based on how busy it was when you visited
...Anyway, Beauval also has the manatee pool, sea lions and penguins - how does Plzen respond to or counteract that in your opinion?
And why not? If you've seen an exhibit personally and had a bad experience then surely that opinion matters more than mine, since I haven't actually seen it in person myself? I feel more informed after hearing a firsthand (non-glowing) account of said exhibit....and I'm not sure you are meant to judge an exhibit based on how busy it was when you visited
But surely just because it is was crowded at that particular moment in time, that shouldn't result in it reflecting badly in this thread! It has never been crowded when I have been! That's a first hand account as well, isn't it?
Beauval doesn't just have the hippos, and I'm not sure you are meant to judge an exhibit based on how busy it was when you visited
@Rayane and others are free to judge as they see fit, but I'm inclined to agree more with @amur leopard here. I think it is fair to judge an exhibit by how busy it is if 1) the design is partially or wholly responsible for the crowding, or 2) if the species present are not well-suited for exposure to crowds. I don't have anything to say about whether Beauval's hippo aviary fits either mold.
Personally, I don't fault good exhibits that just happen to be crowded or busy when I visit them; for example, due to free admission and somewhat small area Lincoln Park Zoo and its buildings are often super-crowded, but the only exhibit I ever judged by that metric was the Kovler Lion House because the particular structure amplified crowd noise to a physically painful degree.
By having (as mentioned before) very good Czech river exhibit + handful of other aquariums in the Underground world and AkvaTera.
The penguin exhibit is good as well, and Plzen has a great breeding record with them.
Great collection of water-dwelling birds but in very average exhibits.
It is not enough to give Plzen a win, but it is certainly enough to scrape a point.