ZooChat Cup finals: Omaha vs Zurich

Omaha vs Zurich: Grasslands and Deserts

  • Omaha 3-0 Zurich

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Omaha 2-1 Zurich

    Votes: 26 78.8%

  • Zurich 2-1 Omaha

    Votes: 7 21.2%

  • Zurich 3-0 Omaha

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .
C

CGSwans

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
A must-win match for Zurich, but perhaps not the category it would have chosen. Grasslands and Deserts.
 
With Lewa not open and Masoala non applicable, Zurich is in deep water. Hopefully for the Swiss contender the Pantanal area counts because otherwise, it is a walk in the park for Omaha! On the American's side, we have a magnificent savanna area with several massive exhibits for hoofstock and elephants, as well as of course the Desert Dome. Easy 2-1 to Omaha IMO, and if Pantanal does indeed not count, 3-0 for certain!
 
CGSwans said:
I will preface this by saying upfront that I am not a specialist and I can’t give highly technical answers. I probably can’t give the precise ones you’re after, either.

I initially called the ‘Grasslands’ category ‘Savannahs’ because I sorta-kinda appreciate the issue you raise. Certainly my expectation is that species like giraffes that live in those ’open woodlands’ environments in Africa would fit within the ‘Grasslands’ biome for Cup purposes, whereas a similar sort of tree cover in Europe makes more sense as ‘Temperate forest’ to me.

Does it work if I suggest that open woodlands in warm and tropical climates fall within ‘Grasslands’, whereas those in cool climates are ‘Temperate Forests’? I think that encapsulates my thinking.
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CGSwans said:
‘Grasslands’ becomes ‘grasslands and deserts’. Again, if you have a better name hit me up. Otherwise it will do. This category inherits the former ‘grasslands’ draw.
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Zurich actually has quite a bit more to show for this category than one would initially think, though a lot depends on the extent to which the Kaeng Krachan elephant park applies to this category. The Gir lion forest is imo another borderline case for this category, as are the Mongolian wolves. There is then Lewa, which is not yet open (though scheduled visits are already possible and some members here have visited ;) ), but most (all?) animals are already on site (will be 14 species total), notably the giraffes, rhinoceros, and naked mole rats; the Grevy zebras are already on display in another part of the zoo. Add to this the now twenty year conservation engagement of the zoo with the Lewa wildlife conservancy. The Australia section is desert or open bushland themed, with notably the perenties, shinglebacks, and Pilbaras in beautiful spacious enclosures, furthermore the wallaby and emu walkthrough (as well as support for the Australian Ark project). The exotarium has a few rather nice desert terraria, particularly the one for sidewinder and the one for heloderma and Colorado river toad. Pantanal has giant anteaters. Semien has hyrax. The only breeding group of Galapagos tortoises in Europe also applies to this category. In the middle of the old part of the zoo there are two rows of unspectacular though adequate hoofstock enclosures for Arabian oryx (where Zurich afaik participated in the reintroduction project), Burma Eld's deer, blackbuck, nilgai, Persian goitered gazelle, Bactrian camel, bar-headed geese, white-naped crane, and a neat terrarium for Saharan spiny-tailed lizard. In Masoala there are Aldabra giant tortoises. Furthermore there is a large aviary for Northern bald ibis at the top end of the zoo. Unlike the former bird category, I cannot think of a single problematic holding at the zoo in this category, husbandry wise.

CGSwans said:
I don’t think so, sorry. I see your reasoning, but I still don’t consider an overview photo to be enough.

Obviously people aren’t required to have visited a collection to vote, but an informed debate does require that at least *some* people have visited, so that they can provide first-hand context rather than everybody working off photos. That photo does tell me that Beauval have created an attractive indoor rainforest to look at, but that’s all. Are the enclosures themselves any good? I don’t know and nobody can actually tell me until after it has opened.
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Well Omaha has a fantastic African area with multiple multi-acre mixed hoofstock yards as well as excellent Lion and Cheetah enclosures. Additionally, most of the zoo's elephants were some of the 18 rescued from Swaziland some years ago. Elsewhere in the zoo, they have a nice mixed Indian Rhinoceros/deer enclosure which I'd imagine counts for grasslands.

Then of course, the zoo has the Desert Dome. While not every single enclosure is great or even good, for the most part this exhibit is superb. It not only exhibits a fantastic diversity of species from across arid Africa, Australia, and North America, but it does a pretty great job of recreating the specific habitats from each continents it's trying to represent in the different sections of the house. In particular, the Australian herp hall and American Southwest section cement the zoo's win here. The collection is fantastic and most of the enclosures are excellent. The zoo even manages to showcase pupfish here, which are always a favorite of mine.

2-1 Omaha for me.

~Thylo
 
Some shots of Desert Dome:
inside the Desert Dome 2013 - ZooChat
Desert Dome - ZooChat
Desert Dome - no barriers to water - ZooChat
Desert Dome - Perentie Exhibit - ZooChat
Desert Dome - ZooChat
Desert Dome- Rattlesnake - ZooChat
Desert Dome - ZooChat
Desert Dome - ZooChat
Desert Dome - ZooChat
Desert Dome - Sonoran Desert Landscape - ZooChat
Desert Dome - Burrowing Owl Exhibit - ZooChat
Desert Dome - Wave Rock - ZooChat
Desert Dome - Reptile Terrariums - ZooChat
Henry Doorly Zoo 2010 - White-nosed Coatimundi exhibit in Desert Dome - ZooChat
Henry Doorly Zoo 2010 - General view in the reptile wing in Desert Dome - ZooChat
Henry Doorly Zoo 2010 - General view in the Sonora Desert section in Desert - ZooChat
Henry Doorly Zoo 2010 - General view in the Red Center section of Desert Do - ZooChat
Henry Doorly Zoo 2010 - General view in the Namib Desert in Desert Dome - ZooChat
Desert Dome-Collared Peccary and Ocelot Exhibits - ZooChat
Desert Dome-Finch Aviary - ZooChat
Desert Dome-Plover/Orange Bishop Weaver - ZooChat
Desert Dome-Cave Paintings - ZooChat
Desert Dome-Entry Area - ZooChat
Desert Dome - Exterior - ZooChat


African savanna:
Giraffe/Ostrich/Impala/Stork/White Rhino Exhibit - ZooChat
Reticulated Giraffe/Ostrich/Black-Footed Penguin Exhibit - ZooChat
African Grasslands - Elephant Exhibit - ZooChat
African Grasslands - Elephant Exhibit - ZooChat
African Grasslands - Elephant Exhibit - ZooChat
African Grasslands - Elephant Exhibit - ZooChat
African Grasslands - Elephant Exhibit - ZooChat
African Grasslands - Multi-Acre Sable Antelope Exhibit - ZooChat
African Grasslands - Cheetah Exhibit - ZooChat
African Grasslands - Cheetah Exhibit - ZooChat
African Grasslands - Lion Exhibit - ZooChat
African Grasslands - Lion Exhibit (see a lion?) - ZooChat

Rhino enclosure:
Asian Highlands: Phase One - Greater One-horned Rhino/Pere Davids Deer Exhibit - ZooChat
Asian Highlands: Phase One - Greater One-horned Rhino/Pere Davids Deer Exhibit - ZooChat

~Thylo
 
2-1 Omaha here. Desert Dome plus African Plains are just excellent in each of the category's focuses.
 
The Desert Dome looks spectacular, excellent presentation value, and the African grasslands look nice. However I have two questions regarding Omaha.

First, while the Desert Dome appears to provide some spectacular visitor experiences, there has been a theme of purportedly problematic and substandard enclosures in the dome that has kept resurfacing very consistently (burrowing animals on hard surface, too small, no sunlight, etc.). These discussions have created an image of a zoo that has a rather cavalier attitude towards animal husbandry, sacrificing animal well-being for presentation value. So I wonder, how good/bad are the enclosures in Desert Dome? Are there any freeroaming animals in the dome, or is it all small enclosures in the dome?

Second, winters are considerably colder in Omaha than in Zurich (min temperatures up to 10deg C lower). Zurich has been setting standards and with Lewa is setting new standards in indoor husbandry for grassland megaherbivores. US zoos usually have their indoor holdings off display. So I wonder, how are all the hoofstock and elephants in Omaha housed in winter?
 
antonmuster said:
Second, winters are considerably colder in Omaha than in Zurich (min temperatures up to 10deg C lower). Zurich has been setting standards and with Lewa is setting new standards in indoor husbandry for grassland megaherbivores. US zoos usually have their indoor holdings off display. So I wonder, how are all the hoofstock and elephants in Omaha housed in winter?
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Your previous Desert Dome questions have been answered in other cup matches, but basically the massive dome is a phenomenal visitor experience. It's amazing to be inside and the reptile collection is full of rarities (particularly in the Australian section), but for sure there are a bunch of small mammal enclosures that are outdated and badly in need of an upgrade.

Omaha's African Grasslands is a 28-acre (11-hectare) part of the zoo that opened in 2016 at a cost of $73 million. Winters are indeed cold in Nebraska and the zoo's elephant holding area is 29,000 square feet (2,700 sq. m.) and that elephant barn is the largest of its kind anywhere in North America. It is not as large as some of the big indoor holding areas for elephants in Europe, but it's the biggest in North America and here is a photo:

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The zoo has stated that when combining the barn with the various outdoor paddocks, the entire African Elephant complex is approximately 5 acres (2 hectares) in size.

Omaha's giraffe exhibit opened at around the same time and it is possibly the largest giraffe barn in North America although I don't know that for sure. There are a series of stalls at the back, with a herd area at the front, and here is a photo:

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The outdoor area for giraffes is also very impressive:

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@antonmuster: To provide a little more context to the information posted by SL, it is worth mentioning that North American winters are better characterized as highly variable rather than uniformly cold. For example, the warmest day in Omaha this week will be 15 C (59 F) while the coldest day this week will be -6 C (22 F). The cold periods can be brutally cold, but they are often (and increasingly more due to climate change) punctuated by periods of milder or even "warm" temperatures... so it's not like these animals are indoors for the entirety of winter.

As for the Desert Dome: there are free-flying birds, as well as aviaries that are mediocre/not much better than the mammal habitats. The complex does a great job on theming and collection, but I wouldn't say there is a single animal exhibit that can or should be described as above-average (maybe a few of the reptile enclosures).
 
The Desert Dome is beginning to look worse and worse each year in terms of animal welfare for the small mammal and bird exhibits, with many of the reptile enclosures also not being great in terms of size...but it is still a spectacular experience for visitors. Here are a few photos showing some highlights:

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Wave Rock:

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Burrowing Owl aviary:

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Rattlesnake exhibit:

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antonmuster said:
The Desert Dome looks spectacular, excellent presentation value, and the African grasslands look nice. However I have two questions regarding Omaha.

First, while the Desert Dome appears to provide some spectacular visitor experiences, there has been a theme of purportedly problematic and substandard enclosures in the dome that has kept resurfacing very consistently (burrowing animals on hard surface, too small, no sunlight, etc.). These discussions have created an image of a zoo that has a rather cavalier attitude towards animal husbandry, sacrificing animal well-being for presentation value. So I wonder, how good/bad are the enclosures in Desert Dome? Are there any freeroaming animals in the dome, or is it all small enclosures in the dome?
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I don't think I've ever heard the no sunlight argument before! The dome is designed to allow natural sunlight through the ceiling so that's definitely not a problem. There are some hallways without natural sunlight but these mainly contain herp displays which are artificially lit. As for the burrowing animals, I remember the Burrowing Owls having access to dig but I don't know about any other species.

~Thylo
 
ThylacineAlive said:
I don't think I've ever heard the no sunlight argument before! The dome is designed to allow natural sunlight through the ceiling so that's definitely not a problem. There are some hallways without natural sunlight but these mainly contain herp displays which are artificially lit.
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Some of the small mammal grottoes (bat-eared fox, ocelot, bobcat, etc.) are very dark and appear not to get much sunlight; however, this might change over the course of the day depending on the sun's positioning.

ThylacineAlive said:
As for the burrowing animals, I remember the Burrowing Owls having access to dig but I don't know about any other species.
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The meerkats and dwarf mongooses did not appear to have soft substrate for digging. Also, burrowing owls rarely do much digging themselves; normally they use abandoned burrows of small mammals.
 
Coelacanth18 said:
Some of the small mammal grottoes (bat-eared fox, ocelot, bobcat, etc.) are very dark and appear not to get much sunlight; however, this might change over the course of the day depending on the sun's positioning.

The meerkats and dwarf mongooses did not appear to have soft substrate for digging. Also, burrowing owls rarely do much digging themselves; normally they use abandoned burrows of small mammals.
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These are good points! I don't remember the mongoose having soft substrate now that you mention it. I'm not sure about the outdoor Meerkat enclosure either.

~Thylo
 
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