ZooChat Cup Group B2: Berlin Zoo vs Chester
- Thread starter CGSwans
- Start date
I will do the species lists in around an hour and a bit.
Opening thoughts, both very good collections in that particular continent, and I wonder if Islands will have any bearing on the outcome...
Opening thoughts, both very good collections in that particular continent, and I wonder if Islands will have any bearing on the outcome...
I also see both having really very strong Asian collections - I've only been to Berlin several times however and therefore have to rely on the species list and especially pictures.
I've not done a detailed look at the species yet - however I believe Berlin has the bigger collection and a lot of rarities (especially when considering ectotherms but also with mammals and birds).
Inital vote for me is 2:1 Berlin for that reason - Chester could only win from my perspective if their enclosures would be significantly better than Berlin.
I've not done a detailed look at the species yet - however I believe Berlin has the bigger collection and a lot of rarities (especially when considering ectotherms but also with mammals and birds).
Inital vote for me is 2:1 Berlin for that reason - Chester could only win from my perspective if their enclosures would be significantly better than Berlin.
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
This is a bit of a test case - how much do people value the fact that Chester has an Asia area and Berlin does not?
In terms of mammals, we have:
Chester
Asian small-clawed otter
Asiatic lion
Balabac chevrotain
Bornean orangutan
Crested black macaque
Greater One-horned rhino
Javan banteng
Lar gibbon
Lion-tailed macaque
Lowland anoa
Malayan tapir
Moloch gibbon
Myanmar thamin
Negros warty pig
Nepalese red panda
Northern Luzon giant cloud rat
Northern treeshrew
Onager
Palawan binturong
Rodriguez flying fox
South-east Asian elephant
Sulawesi babirusa
Sumatran orangutan
Sumatran prevost's squirrel
Sumatran tiger
Sun bear
Swinhoe's striped squirrel
Turkish spiny mouse
Visayan spotted deer
(29 species)
Berlin
Arabian sand cat
Asian small-clawed otter
Asiatic black bear
Bangka Prevost's squirrel
Bengal slow loris
Blackbuck
Bornean bearded pig
Chinese water deer
Eurasian beaver
Eurasian forest reindeer
Giant panda
Greater one-horned rhinoceros
Greater slow loris
Grey langur
Hamadryas baboon
Himalayan tahr
Indian gaur
Indian sloth bear
Indian swamp deer
Japanese macaque
Japanese sika deer
Java mouse deer
Javan banteng
Javan lutung
Lion
Lion-tailed macaque
Lowland anoa
Malayan slow loris
Negros warty pig
North Persian leopard
Persian fallow deer
Pileated gibbon
Przewalski's horse
Reeves' muntjac
Roborovski's desert hamster
Siamang
Siberian ibex
Sichuan takin
South-East Asian elephant
Sri Lankan rusty-spotted cat
Sulawesi babirusa
Sumatran orangutan
Sumatran prevost's squirrel
Toque macaque
Visayan spotted deer
(45 species)
Berlin leads 45-29 in species
Other comments on list: Both good collections but Berlin is clearly above Chester in this area.
Chester
Asian small-clawed otter
Asiatic lion
Balabac chevrotain
Bornean orangutan
Crested black macaque
Greater One-horned rhino
Javan banteng
Lar gibbon
Lion-tailed macaque
Lowland anoa
Malayan tapir
Moloch gibbon
Myanmar thamin
Negros warty pig
Nepalese red panda
Northern Luzon giant cloud rat
Northern treeshrew
Onager
Palawan binturong
Rodriguez flying fox
South-east Asian elephant
Sulawesi babirusa
Sumatran orangutan
Sumatran prevost's squirrel
Sumatran tiger
Sun bear
Swinhoe's striped squirrel
Turkish spiny mouse
Visayan spotted deer
(29 species)
Berlin
Arabian sand cat
Asian small-clawed otter
Asiatic black bear
Bangka Prevost's squirrel
Bengal slow loris
Blackbuck
Bornean bearded pig
Chinese water deer
Eurasian beaver
Eurasian forest reindeer
Giant panda
Greater one-horned rhinoceros
Greater slow loris
Grey langur
Hamadryas baboon
Himalayan tahr
Indian gaur
Indian sloth bear
Indian swamp deer
Japanese macaque
Japanese sika deer
Java mouse deer
Javan banteng
Javan lutung
Lion
Lion-tailed macaque
Lowland anoa
Malayan slow loris
Negros warty pig
North Persian leopard
Persian fallow deer
Pileated gibbon
Przewalski's horse
Reeves' muntjac
Roborovski's desert hamster
Siamang
Siberian ibex
Sichuan takin
South-East Asian elephant
Sri Lankan rusty-spotted cat
Sulawesi babirusa
Sumatran orangutan
Sumatran prevost's squirrel
Toque macaque
Visayan spotted deer
(45 species)
Berlin leads 45-29 in species
Other comments on list: Both good collections but Berlin is clearly above Chester in this area.
Berlin keeps African lions and Eurasian forest reindeer do not occur in the Russian part of Asia and are restricted to Europe.
Enclosurewise Chester does however beat Berlin clearly when it comes to primates and seems also generally better for other species groups.
Enclosurewise Chester does however beat Berlin clearly when it comes to primates and seems also generally better for other species groups.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Is the comparison only one of mammals, or are other groups included?
Chester has its Islands complex, which as a whole should count as should all/nearly all of the species in it. I've heard very good reviews of it, and the photos I've seen range from good to fantastic (and I've also heard good things about the orangutan and elephant digs). I also know that Chester has been leading the way in breeding notable Asian species like Javan green magpie, Balabac chevrotain, and babirusa. My initial leaning is therefore towards Chester, but I'd like to know more about Berlin before voting.
@amur leopard's list was mammals only.
@amur leopard's list was mammals only.
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
In fairness I'm sure the other groups are coming.Other groups are included, he merely skipped all the others
Another thing to bear in mind is that not all of the Asian species at either collection will count for the purposes of this challenge; some will fall under the Islands/Oceania theme.
Fair enough for the lions. I just couldn't be sure because ZTL listed them as Barbary but also as Non-subspecific.
Eurasian forest reindeer encompass both Finnish forest reindeer and Siberian forest reindeer so I do believe they do occur in Asia as well... Anyway, enough trivialities and onto birds.
Chester
79 species
Berlin
133 species
If anyone wants the species lists I can post them.
This is a very interesting match! Chester's Island are on the top of my list of exhibits that I want to see, and Berlin is, well, it's Berlin!
Berlin's enclosures for Asian animals are all over the place in terms of quality. From the very modern blob-bear enclosure through standard hoofdstock paddocks towards enclosures that are simply outdated like the Elephant house.
Berlin's enclosures for Asian animals are all over the place in terms of quality. From the very modern blob-bear enclosure through standard hoofdstock paddocks towards enclosures that are simply outdated like the Elephant house.
I can see a few mammals in your initial list from east of the Wallace Line, which was one of the possible determining factors cited.
On a related note..... @CGSwans - are the Philippines in Asia or Islands for this challenge?
The European forest reindeer are a separate subspecies fennicus, that occurs only in Karelia and Finland, which is where all animals in Europe stem from.
It would depend on how you're treating Sulawesi - personally I would include Sulawesi and the Philippines under Asia for this challenge.
Rodriguez Flying Fox of course does not count in any way for this round.
The Wallace line excludes half of Indonesia from Asia, so I used the Lydekker line.
OK I agree.
That means that it is 45-28 in mammals.