ZooChat Cup Group C: Plzen vs Rotterdam
- Thread starter CGSwans
- Start date
This is a close contest and I could settle for a tie here.
For some background here are the species lists:
Both
Greater kudu, Blackbuck, Vicuna, Pygmy hippo, Chapman's zebra, Indian rhino
Plzen
Musk ox, Blesbok, Reeves' muntjac, Dall sheep, Collared peccary, Lechwe, Bighorn sheep, Javan rusa, Chinese goral, Nyala, Rotschildt's giraffe, Warthog, Wisent, Wapiti (nannodes), Kulan, Kiang
Rotterdam
Balabac mousedeer, Forest reindeer, Banteng, Mhor gazelle, Visayan warty pig, Reticulated giraffe, Okapi, Tufted deer, Bongo, Red river hog, Bison, Philippine spotted deer, Red forest buffalo, Southern pudu, Black rhino, Malayan tapir, Asian elephant
Blijdorp keeps one species more than Plzen. Plzen keeps slightly more rarities, but has less diversity at a family level. It should be noted that Visayan warty pig were first imported by Blijdorp (4.4 with a quarantine in Poznan) and they are the basis for the whole European population. Together with TP Berlin Blijdorp was also paramount in establishing Tufted deer and Sichuan takin in Europe.
In terms of enclosures Plzen might have the edge when it comes to animal husbandry. Some smallish enclosures are there and particularly the Pygmy hippo accomodation strikes me as far from optimal. Blijdorp is however also not the greatest in terms of enclosures, with the new development for Black rhino and Pygmy hippo in particular being underwhelming. This development was however successful from an architectural point of view and Blijdorp has what is possibly the most elegant Giraffe house on the continent. Hoofstock enclosures in Blijdorp are often memorable, where none really stick in Plzen.
I would be happy with a tie here, but I am leaning slightly towards Blijdorp.
For some background here are the species lists:
Both
Greater kudu, Blackbuck, Vicuna, Pygmy hippo, Chapman's zebra, Indian rhino
Plzen
Musk ox, Blesbok, Reeves' muntjac, Dall sheep, Collared peccary, Lechwe, Bighorn sheep, Javan rusa, Chinese goral, Nyala, Rotschildt's giraffe, Warthog, Wisent, Wapiti (nannodes), Kulan, Kiang
Rotterdam
Balabac mousedeer, Forest reindeer, Banteng, Mhor gazelle, Visayan warty pig, Reticulated giraffe, Okapi, Tufted deer, Bongo, Red river hog, Bison, Philippine spotted deer, Red forest buffalo, Southern pudu, Black rhino, Malayan tapir, Asian elephant
Blijdorp keeps one species more than Plzen. Plzen keeps slightly more rarities, but has less diversity at a family level. It should be noted that Visayan warty pig were first imported by Blijdorp (4.4 with a quarantine in Poznan) and they are the basis for the whole European population. Together with TP Berlin Blijdorp was also paramount in establishing Tufted deer and Sichuan takin in Europe.
In terms of enclosures Plzen might have the edge when it comes to animal husbandry. Some smallish enclosures are there and particularly the Pygmy hippo accomodation strikes me as far from optimal. Blijdorp is however also not the greatest in terms of enclosures, with the new development for Black rhino and Pygmy hippo in particular being underwhelming. This development was however successful from an architectural point of view and Blijdorp has what is possibly the most elegant Giraffe house on the continent. Hoofstock enclosures in Blijdorp are often memorable, where none really stick in Plzen.
I would be happy with a tie here, but I am leaning slightly towards Blijdorp.
Blijdorp is fresh in my mind from my summer visit (in the company of @sooty mangabey ) and the excellent analysis of @lintworm has led me to vote 2-1 Blijdorp in this close contest.
This is demonstrably not true. As established earlier in the thread, Rotterdam has one more species than Plzen does.
Hi all
Not back yet but I had a small window of time in which to post so here goes.
I haven’t visited either of the institutions in question (mainly because both of the cities are not touristic and quite industrial, and how little say teens have in deciding trips).
All I can say is that though @lintworm’s post is very enlightening, I would certainly like to see some photos, because I don’t yet understand the extent of the gap between the two in exhibitry, husbandry, etc...
Thanks all
Have a nice rest of week
EDIT: would also love to hear from @TeaLovingDave and @FunkyGibbon (or anyone who voted 2-1 Plzen) for their interpretation
Not back yet but I had a small window of time in which to post so here goes.
I haven’t visited either of the institutions in question (mainly because both of the cities are not touristic and quite industrial, and how little say teens have in deciding trips).
All I can say is that though @lintworm’s post is very enlightening, I would certainly like to see some photos, because I don’t yet understand the extent of the gap between the two in exhibitry, husbandry, etc...
Thanks all
Have a nice rest of week
EDIT: would also love to hear from @TeaLovingDave and @FunkyGibbon (or anyone who voted 2-1 Plzen) for their interpretation
This looks like another interesting match. Have been only in Plzen and was pleasantly surprised by Ungulate collection there. The mega-fauna is rarely mentioned, when people talk about Plzen, since the Rhino, Giraffe and Hippo are fairly new inhabitants. Focus is always on Birds, reptiles and mostly on small mammals. Nevertheless I am thinking, that Plzen has what to offer. The African Water Holes with Chapman's Zebras and Lechwe and neighbor Savanna with Rothschild Giraffes,Greater Kudu, Blesbuck and Nyala are not something unforgettable, but are really spacious with a lot of green plants and nice water bodies. In the Giraffe / Rhino house with African ungulate pavilion, you can meet the antelopes eye to eye. In Plains of India, One-horned rhino, Blackbuck and Rusa deer grazing together. Canadian north can offer three very intrigue and rare for Europe species: Tule elk, Dall's sheep and Californian Bighorn sheep, which also have visible outdoor stables. The Pygmy hippo lake is probably one of the best enclosure for the species. The Chinese Goral has nice rocky exibit, The Vicunia enclosure fits well in the South American Pampas. The only ungulate, that not feels very comfortably is probably the Northern Warthog, which is quite close to the Cheetah.
I understand the Rotterdam is the better zoo and probably the favorite here, whit the remarkable Giraffe house, Elephants husbandry and endangered species like Visayan spotted deer, Addra gazelle and Visayan warty pig, but I believe, that Plzen ungulate collection deserved to be mentioned and I will vote 2:1 in their favor.
I understand the Rotterdam is the better zoo and probably the favorite here, whit the remarkable Giraffe house, Elephants husbandry and endangered species like Visayan spotted deer, Addra gazelle and Visayan warty pig, but I believe, that Plzen ungulate collection deserved to be mentioned and I will vote 2:1 in their favor.
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FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
I would also just say that I have visited Plzen and not Rotterdam (yet). I think Plzen has very good enclosures, and comparing the collections I find it appeals more to my taste.
I'm happy to consider a switch if someone makes a case that Rotterdam is actually better in some measureable way. At the moment I'm not sure why it is so far ahead, and I fear it's because people are applying the rule of thumb that Plzen's good collection is marred by small enclosures, which is not the case for ungulates.
I'm happy to consider a switch if someone makes a case that Rotterdam is actually better in some measureable way. At the moment I'm not sure why it is so far ahead, and I fear it's because people are applying the rule of thumb that Plzen's good collection is marred by small enclosures, which is not the case for ungulates.
Never been to Plzen ( yet ) but countless times to Rotterdam and its one of my favorite zoos. This combined with what lintworm writes about the 2 collections make me to give a 2-1 score in favour of Rotterdam.
So where does the difference in these two opinions about the pygmy hippo enclosure at Plzen come from? @lintworm says that it is "far from optimal," which to me means that it isn't a very good enclosure, but then @twilighter says that its "one of the best" for pygmy hippos. I think their is a lot of similarity in what you guys said about the enclosures at Plzen, but I'm curious about the thinking for each of you behind this particular enclosure as we seem to have a huge variation in opinion here.
would also love to hear from @TeaLovingDave and @FunkyGibbon (or anyone who voted 2-1 Plzen) for their interpretation
Well, first things first - I think that the following post by twilighter rather sums my feelings up well:
I'd like to particularly echo the remarks about how good the African savannah and Plains of India exhibits are, and the fact that the various exhibits for caprine species are also highlights.
The mixed African savannah exhibit at Rotterdam, centred on the giraffe house, is certainly excellent - however I would tend to argue that it is the only truly memorable hoofstock exhibit at the collection, whereas as noted above I think the complex of several large hoofstock exhibits on the lower levels of Plzen is a real highlight and something of an overlooked strength of the collection as a whole
Thank you for your response. Its awesome they have acces to a lake. But new question, can they actually get up on that island? From the looks of it, I would say those rocks that look to go around the island probably prevent them from doing so. I currently am sitting 2-1 Plzen, but am curious.
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I think your calculations are slightly off......
PLZEN: 27 TAXA
Domestic: 5
Bos primigenius f. taurus
Camelus ferus f. bactrianus
Capra aegagrus f. hircus
Equus ferus f. caballus
Ovis orientalis f. aries
Elephant: 0
Even-toed: 18
Antilope cervicapra
Bison bonasus
Cervus canadensis nannodes
Choeropsis liberiensis liberiensis
Damaliscus pygargus phillipsi
Giraffa camelopardalis rothschildi
Kobus leche kafuensis
Muntiacus reevesi reevesi
Naemorhedus griseus arnouxianus
Ovibos moschatus moschatus
Ovis canadensis californiana
Ovis dalli dalli
Pecari tajacu
Phacochoerus africanus africanus
Rusa timorensis
Tragelaphus angasii
Tragelaphus strepsiceros
Vicugna vicugna
Odd-toed: 4
Equus hemionus kulan
Equus kiang holdereri
Equus quagga chapmani
Rhinoceros unicornis
ROTTERDAM: 24 TAXA
Domestic: 1
Camelus ferus f. bactrianus
Elephant: 1
Elephas maximus
Even-toed: 18
Antilope cervicapra
Bison bison bison
Bos javanicus javanicus
Choeropsis liberiensis liberiensis
Elaphodus cephalophus michianus
Giraffa camelopardalis reticulata
Nanger dama mhorr
Okapia johnstoni
Potamochoerus porcus
Pudu puda
Rangifer tarandus fennicus
Rusa alfredi
Sus cebifrons negrinus
Syncerus caffer nanus
Tragelaphus eurycerus isaaci
Tragelaphus strepsiceros
Tragulus nigricans
Vicugna vicugna
Odd-toed: 4
Diceros bicornis michaeli
Equus quagga chapmani
Rhinoceros unicornis
Tapirus indicus
So in point of fact, Plzen has more hoofstock taxa than does Rotterdam - this being primarily due to the sizeable and very pleasant collection of rare domestic breeds displayed near the top of the zoo.
Yes, they can. The source is the Guide and I think, this is the concrete stairs they are using.
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I am not sure whether or not they can get onto the Colobus island or not, but I do know they have an off-display area of land immediately behind their house - and of course, they also have access to the entire lake around the house and the colobus island. The following map shows the extent of the aforementioned lake - the divide between this and the moat for the savannah and plains exhibits is quite clear, as is the size of said exhibits:
And some more photos of the outdoor exhibit:
I suspect you are correct - the best remedy for which is to bring photographs of the Plzen exhibits to the attention of the masses, as follows:
Pygmy Hippopotamus - already covered in my post above.
Mixed African Savannah (Giraffe and Kudu):
Mixed African Savannah (Zebra and Lechwe):
Mixed Asian Highlands:
Plains of India:
Goral:
Tule Elk:
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Strangely, the gallery seems to be more or less bereft of any photographs of the exhibits for Dall's Sheep or Californian Bighorn - I'll have to look through my photos from 2017 and last month to see if I can plug that gap. I'll see if I can find any better photographs of the Zebra/Lechwe exhibit too.
Dall's sheep. California Bighorn and the Tule Elk enclosures are respectively first and second behind.
Zebra/Lechwe/Ostrich
Great Kudu / Bontebok / Giraffe enclosure
Nyala
Vicuna
Reeves Muntjac enclosure
Tule Elk enclosure
Zebra/Lechwe/Ostrich
Great Kudu / Bontebok / Giraffe enclosure
Nyala
Vicuna
Reeves Muntjac enclosure
Tule Elk enclosure
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