ZooChat Cup Group C2: Bronx vs Rotterdam

Bronx vs Rotterdam: Asia

  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .
C

CGSwans

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
The winner of this one won’t quite be guaranteed a spot in the final 8, but they’ll be mighty close. The topic? Asia.
 
2-1 Rotterdam, mainly because a fair amount of Bronx's Asian mega fauna is only viewable via monorail at peak times of year.
 
Brum said:
2-1 Rotterdam, mainly because a fair amount of Bronx's Asian mega fauna is only viewable via monorail at peak times of year.
Click to expand...

I'll have to marshall my thoughts a bit - and hear more about the collection at Bronx - but for now I have voted 2-1 to Bronx on the basis that the Asian section of Rotterdam is in a state of distinct decline, although still reasonably good, whereas I'm under the impression Bronx has been improving in this area.
 
This is a hard one for me. I think these zoos are very close, but also very different.

Bronx undoubtably has the better collection. Most zoos would be hard-pressed to have a better Asian collection than Bronx. However, Blijdorp is no slouch here either.

Blijdorp has the better Asian theming. The two Asian houses look like they could come straight from Indonesia and the Chinese garden is marvellous. Bronx doesn't have anything similar.

Enclosure-wise I think Blijdorp wins again. My recollection of JungleWorld is a bit blurry, but I do think that it was mediocre at best. The other Asian enclosures throughout the zoo are good though, but so are the enclosures at Blijdorp. I could be completely wrong on this though, and can be swayed if someone makes a good case for Bronx.

Currently voting 2-1 for Blijdorp.
 
I'm going to vote 2-1 for Blijdorp here as well. I think for me personally, this phase in the cup is supposed to elaborate on the representation of a certain continent moreso than the individual species or enclosures. And when we're talking about representation of a specific continent, certainly Blijdorp is one of the most relevant contenders at the table across all zoos worldwide as they played a very big part internationally in introducing the concept of organizing zoos geographically.

I'd also dare to say that Asia specifically is really where that concept comes to life the best. They don't just have a bunch of Asian species thrown together in otherwise very "European" enclosures, but went the extra mile to adjust the planting, to adjust the theming, to adjust the buildings... Not in a tacky way (like, for example, a Pairi Daiza - even though I don't completely dislike their aproach either) but in a way that truly gets you interested in the continent and the different biomes and animals within it.

Bronx's Jungle World and the Wild Asia Monorail are both nothing short of impressive and I thoroughly enjoyed both areas (though they aren't without flaw either), but both could easily also have portrayed other continents if you just swapped out the species... And I feel like that doesn't deserve them a win in a category that focuses on the essence of the continent itself.
 
Species first:
Blackbuck
Indian Gaur
Nilgai
Bukharan Markhor
Nubian Ibex (they're the AZA's bachelor herd holder)
Himalayan Tahr
Chital
Indian Hog Deer
Formosan Sika Deer
Indian Sambar
Western Tufted Deer
Pere David's Deer
North Indian Muntjac
Burmese Brow-Antlered Deer
Western Barasingha
North Sulawesi Babirusa
Greater Malay Chevrotain
Western Red Panda
Chinese Dhole
Amur Leopard
Amur Tiger
Malayan Tiger
Snow Leopard (including a wild-born male from Pakistan)
Oriental Small-Clawed Otter
Indian Flying Fox
Przewalski's Wild Horse
Indian Rhinoceros
Malayan Tapir
Javan Langur
Silvered Leaf Monkey
Northern White-Cheeked Gibbon
Pygmy Slow Loris
Indian Elephant
Lesser Egyptian Jerboa
African Grass Rat (I think this species is also in the Middle East)
Arabian Spiny Mouse
Eurasian Harvest Mouse
Northern Luzon Giant Cloud Rat
Sumatran Prevost's Squirrel
Northern Treeshrew
Cinereous Vulture
Mandarin Duck
Philippine Duck
Wild Swan Goose
Baer's Pochard
Tufted Duck
Ferruginous Duck
Barnacle Goose
Whooper Swan
Falcated Duck
Marbled Teal
Smew
Chinese Merganser
Radjah Shelduck
Old World Comb Duck
Oriental Pied Hornbill
Great Indian Hornbill
Sanford's Dwarf Hornbill
Sulawesi Knobbed Hornbill
Tufted Puffin
Eurasian Oystercatcher
Common Tern
Pied Avocet
Storm's Stork
Lesser Adjutant Stork
Painted Stork
Nicobar Pigeon
Pied Imperial-Pigeon
Luzon Bleeding-Heart Dove
Black-Naped Fruit-Dove
Chestnut-Breasted Malkoha
Maleo
Malayan Great Argus
Chinese Bamboo-Partridge
Lady Amherst's Pheasant
Brown Eared-Pheasant
Sri Lankan Junglefowl
Green Junglefowl
Himalayan Monal
Silver Pheasant
Swinhoe's Pheasant
Indian Peafowl
Mountain Peacock-Pheasant
Palawan Peacock-Pheasant
Crested Wood Partridge
Mikado Pheasant
Western Capercaillie
Cabot's Tragopan
Satyr Tragopan
Temminck's Tragopan
White-Naped Crane
Red-Crowned Crane
Black-Naped Crane
White-Breasted Woodswallow
Asian Azure-Winged Magpie
Red-Billed Blue Magpie
Blue-Faced Parrotfinch
Tricolored Parrotfinch
Java Sparrow
Asian Fairy-Bluebird
White-Crested Laughingthrush
Red-Billed Leiothrix
Oriental Magpie-Robin
Blue Whistling-Thrush
Black-Naped Oriole
Bali Mynah
Grosbeak Starling
Chestnut-Backed Thrush
Javan Pond-Heron
Northern Bald Ibis
Yellow-Crested Cockatoo
Plum-Headed Parakeet
Lord Derby's Parakeet
Eurasian Eagle-Owl
Snowy Owl
Chinese Alligator
Siamese Crocodile
Ganges Gharial
Sunda Gharial
Philippine Sailfin Lizard
Mangrove Snake
Red-Tailed Green Ratsnake
Indian Cobra (rescued, wild-born individual)
King Cobra
Reticulated Python
Timor Python
Burmese Python
Malaysian Blood Python
Chinese Crocodile Lizard
Komodo Dragon
Gray's Monitor
Roti Island Snake-Necked Turtle
Painted River Terrapin
Red-Crowned Roofed Turtle
Yellow-Headed Box Turtle
Bourret's Box Turtle
Chinese Box Turtle
Indochinese Box Turtle
McCord's Box Turtle
Pan's Box Turtle
Golden Coin Turtle
Spotted Pond Turtle
Black-Breasted Leaf Turtle
Yellow-Headed Temple Turtle
Sulawesi Forest Turtle
Vietnamese Pond Turtle
Bornean River Turtle
Indian Roofed Turtle
Beale's Four-Eyed Turtle
Chinese Four-Eyed Turtle
Chinese Big-Headed Turtle
Forsten's Tortoise
Malaysian Brown Tortoise
Israeli Spur-Thighed Tortoise
Borneo Eared Frog
Vietnamese Mossy Frog
Anderson's Alligator Newt
Emperor Newt
Common Paradisefish
Giant Gourami
Common Tinfoil Barb
Filament Barb
Sumatran Tiger Barb
Atlantic Mudskipper
Asian Arowana
Banded Archerfish
Spotted Scat
Iridescent Shark-Catfish
Green Pufferfish
Poecilotheria regalis
Heterometrus fulvipes
Thyropygus pachyurus
Sagra buqueti
Macrochirus praetor
Dorcus titanus
Deroplatys desiccata
Sipyloidea sipylus
Heteropteryx dilatata
Eurycantha calcarata
Medauroidea extradentata

I apologize if a couple of the fish and inverts fall outside of the match's range. I tried double-checking but it's late and I have work early in the morning.

I don't have time to get into every individual enclosure right now but here are some of the highlights:
Tigers-
Bronx Zoo- Amur Tiger Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- Tiger Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo 2010 - Part of Amur Tiger exhibit in Tiger Mountain - ZooChat
Tiger Mountain- Amur Tiger Exhibit #2 - ZooChat
Poacher's Truck - ZooChat

Snow Leopard-
Himalayan Highlands- Snow Leopard Exhibit #3 - ZooChat
Himalayan Highlands- Snow Leopard Exhibit #1 - ZooChat
Himalayan Highlands- Snow Leopard Exhibit #2 - ZooChat

Elephant-
Wild Asia Monorail - ZooChat

Rhino-
Bronx Zoo 2010 - Part of Indian Rhinoceros exhibit in Wild Asia - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- Indian Rhino Exhibit - ZooChat (that wallow was made naturally by the various rhinos living in this enclosure since the monorail's opening in 1977. Both photos are of one enclosure)

Other ungulates-
Bronx Zoo- Wild Asia Deer Exhibit - ZooChat (only a fraction)
Wild Asia - ZooChat (again only a fraction, for some reason there aren't any photographs of the other side of this massive enclosure which is completely forested)
Bronx Zoo- Mongolian Wild Horse Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- Gaur/ Brow Antlered Deer Exhibit - ZooChat
Wild Asia Monorail - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- Pere David's Deer Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- Part 2 of Pere David's Deer Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo 2010 - Babirusa exhibit in Wild Asia - ZooChat
Wild Asia - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- Himalayan Tahr Exhibit - ZooChat

Langur-
JungleWorld- Silvered-Leaf Langur Exhibit - ZooChat
Jungle World - ZooChat (yes, all indoors but I feel like this enclosure offers a lot more room and climbing opportunities than many of the outdoor langur enclosures I've seen in the US; the langurs can access that mockrock wall and ground area poorly shown in the back as well)

Various birds/current chevrotain-
Bronx Zoo- World of Birds- Large Mixed Exhibit - ZooChat (this enclosure is significantly deeper than the photo makes it appear and also spans the two stores of the building)

Adjutant stork-
Bronx Zoo- Lesser Adjutant Stork Aviary Outside Aquatic Bird House - ZooChat

Cranes-
Himalayan Highlands- White-Naped Crane Exhibit - ZooChat
Bronx Zoo- Northern Ponds- Part 1 of Black-necked Crane Exhibit - ZooChat

Gharial/turtles/fishes-
Gharial, Malayan Giant River Turtle, fish - ZooChat (a portion, the reptiles can travel all the way up and down the string of waterfalls/pools if they like--and they do)

Komodo Dragon-
Bronx Zoo- Indoor Komodo Dragon Exhibit - ZooChat (maybe half? It's deeper than it looks and there are off-show enclosures, too, I believe. There are multiple outdoor yards but none appear to be photographed)

JungleWorld main room-
Malayan Tapir - Jungle World 031215 - ZooChat
Painted Stork - Jungle World 031215 - ZooChat (small portion of the main room, I had the exact size down somewhere but I can't find it atm. It was larger in square footage than the San Diego outdoors aviaries iirc. @nczoofan may be able to supply it, though. Free-ranging home to the zoos gibbons, squirrels, flying foxes, and various birds)

Let it be known than the oh-so-hated tiny nocturnal chevrotain enclosure and the tiny blood python in a log terrarium are, thankfully, no longer in use so if anyone else supplies further photos do not use those!

Some additional notable points:
-Bronx has acted as an import facility for Ganges Gharial in the US for some years now. I believe both San Diego and LA's animals originated from Bronx-led imports.
-Bronx (along with San Diego) is almost singlehandedly maintaining several Asian hoofstock populations for US zoos. This is particularly true for their deer programs, where they (again along with San Diego) are solely keeping breeding herds of Sambar and North Indian Muntjac alive. Additionally the zoo keeps, I believe, roughly a third of the US Barasingha population, if not more. They also are one of the only zoos keeping and actively breeding Indian Gaur. They are also the zoo that imported the majority of the chevrotain founders for the population, and keep nearly half of all the breeding females.
-The zoo is wildly successful in their tiger program. Not only do they have an award-winning exhibit Tiger Mountain dedicated solely to the two subspecies they keep, but they also have a superb enclosure in Wild Asia along with an entire off-exhibit breeding compound. In total the zoo keeps roughly a dozen tiger between the two subspecies and breeds them both fairly regularly.
-The zoo was the second in the US to go into Przewalski's Wild Horses and has maintained a breeding herd ever since, possibly the largest herd in the country. Additionally the zoo was heavily involved with the reintroduced and continued conservation of the species in Central Asia.
-As one may have noticed above, the zoo has a fantastic collection of Asian freshwater turtles. They zoo has had outstanding success with breeding most of their species, including several of their seven Cuora species. While the zoo does not currently keep any Northern River Terrapins, they do own the entire US population which is on loan to various other zoos across the country. population. Additionally, the zoo works in various countries across South and East Asia to protect endangered freshwater turtles. Specifically, I know the zoo has been involved in many reintroductions of captive-bred Batagur turtles as well as in the continued search for Yangtze Giant Softshell Turtles, though their efforts will not stop there.
-Recently the zoo started exhibiting Chinese Dhole, making them only the fifth US zoos to keep this species and only the fourth to actually exhibit them. By their new enclosure, the zoo has a fantastic line-up of signs discussing Dhole (and Canid) evolution, morphological differences across their range, and the conservation efforts the WCS has taken in preserving this species in the wild.
-The zoo was the first US zoo to keep Snow Leopards, and have had outstanding breeding success ever since having produced over 70 cubs, the most recent of which was born this year.
-As part of their ongoing Maleo conservation and research project in Sulawesi, the zoo maintains a large captive population of the birds. I believe the zoo holds the captive breeding record for this species and has been continuously breeding them for years now, including some chicks born this year. Additionally, Bronx-bred birds have been sent to various zoos across the US and even over to Walsrode in Germany as the only European holder.
- Bronx is one of the few US zoos to keep cloud rats, which they specifically imported from Prague in order to establish a US population.
-The zoo houses the only breeding population of adjutant storks in the country, and has been a source of new animals for other zoos including Paignton in the UK.
-On top of all of the above, the WCS participates in conservation projects across Asia, in countries including but not necessarily limited to Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia, China, India, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Mongolia, Myanmar, Pakistan, Russia, Thailand, and Vietnam. In these countries they have fantastic conservation programs for pretty much any and all endangered species which live in them, from elephants to pangolins to Tibetan Antelope to songbirds to turtles. One such program which springs to mind is their establishment of a protected breeding site in Cambodia for Giant Ibis and Greater Adjutant Stork, which they helped create by working with the local farmers to build more efficient and environmentally friendly farming techniques (there's a fascinating YouTube video on their channel about it).

I look forward to being able to catch up on the discussion/answer any questions tomorrow night!

~Thylo
 
[QUOTE="Vision, post: Bronx's Jungle World and the Wild Asia Monorail are both nothing short of impressive and I thoroughly enjoyed both areas (though they aren't without flaw either), but both could easily also have portrayed other continents if you just swapped out the species... And I feel like that doesn't deserve them a win in a category that focuses on the essence of the continent itself.[/QUOTE]

The vegetation (real and artificial) used in Jungleworld is almost all comprised of Asian species or closely related forms. It is by far the most realistically simulated Asian rainforest habitat in any non-Asian zoo; it is absurd to claim the efforts are “generic.” Rotterdam has done a nice job using sort-of-tropical-looking plantings and some architectural theming to suggest Asian environments, but the artificial elements in the indoor habitats there are much less detailed or specifically “Asian” than those in the 35-year old Bronx rainforest.
 
reduakari said:
The vegetation (real and artificial) used in Jungleworld is almost all comprised of Asian species or closely related forms. It is by far the most realistically simulated Asian rainforest habitat in any non-Asian zoo; it is absurd to claim the efforts are “generic.” Rotterdam has done a nice job using sort-of-tropical-looking plantings and some architectural theming to suggest Asian environments, but the artificial elements in the indoor habitats there are much less detailed or specifically “Asian” than those in the 35-year old Bronx rainforest.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I had no idea! In that case I stand corrected about JungleWorld.
 
An interesting pairing. I feel the public face of both of these zoos is, similarly, a bit tatty, with - in general, and in the Asian displays in particular – exhibits that were, and could still be, excellent, allowed to slip a little bit. Of the various big jungle houses that I have seen (Brookfield, Omaha, Boston, and Topeka if it counts!) jungle world is by far the best. However, it does look as if it could do with a bit of a makeover: the extent to which the pedagogical material has been allowed to become outdated is really shameful (and that leopard box doesn’t get any better either). Meanwhile, over in the Netherlands what was once a great walk through aviary is now a crumbling mess, while other enclosures and displays are showing their age.

However, there is much to applaud at both places. Rotterdam’s Banteng and Lion-tailed Macaque exhibits are lovely, as is that for Red Pandas. The Polar Bear thing is pretty good too.

But I think this has to be a walkover for Bronx. Despite the issues mentioned above, Jungle World is tremendous. I’m no fan of monorail-only exhibits, but Wild Asia has some fantastic stuff to see. The Tiger and Snow Leopard areas are really first class. And, throughout the zoo, there are other Asian species which are really worth seeing in, for example, the Reptile House, the World of Birds, and the Mouse House.

The days when the main building at Blijdorp had some incredible reptiles (and Orangutans!) are sadly long gone.
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Poecilotheria regalis
Heterometrus fulvipes
Thyropygus pachyurus
Sagra buqueti
Macrochirus praetor
Dorcus titanus
Deroplatys desiccata
Sipyloidea sipylus
Heteropteryx dilatata
Eurycantha calcarata
Medauroidea extradentata
Click to expand...

That's a cool list of inverts, especially the Dorcus. Do you know what their exhibit is like?
 
I'm not gonna vote because I have no knowledge of Rotterdam... and I would probably just vote 3-0 Bronx :oops:
 
Mr. Zootycoon said:
That's a cool list of inverts, especially the Dorcus. Do you know what their exhibit is like?
Click to expand...

Most of them have the bog-standard rectangular terrariums mounted in the wall set up with some plants and dirt thrown in, so not the most spectacular exhibits but the species are lovely as you say. One of the stick insects do have a much larger and taller enclosures with branches as well. The zoo also has a crayfish mixed in one of the fish tanks in JW, though it's not even labeled to genus level so I don't know if it's even an Asian species or not.

~Thylo
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Painted Stork - Jungle World 031215 - ZooChat (small portion of the main room, I had the exact size down somewhere but I can't find it atm. It was larger in square footage than the San Diego outdoors aviaries iirc. @nczoofan may be able to supply it, though. Free-ranging home to the zoos gibbons, squirrels, flying foxes, and various birds)
Click to expand...

A little late but I found it for anyone interested. The free-flight room is roughly 20,000sqft in size. I'm not sure on height but it's pretty tall.

~Thylo
 
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