ZooChat Cup Group D: Frankfurt vs San Diego
- Thread starter CGSwans
- Start date
I've been to both zoos this year - and both zoos have clearly their strengths in this category.
Despite the impressive collection of Frankfurt (21 species) - especially for nocturnal primates - I still believe that San Diego cannot be beaten here.
Attached the list for Frankfurt according to Zootierliste:
White-faced saki
Bonobo
Brown spider monkey
Aye-Aye
Yellow-breasted Capuchin
Pygmy Marmoset
Golden Lion Tamarin
Grey Mouse Lemur
Grey-bellied Night Monkey
Patas Monkey
Ring-tailed Lemur
Cotton-headed Tamarin
Hamadryas Baboon
Grey Slender Loris
White-cheeked Gibbon
Emperor Tamarin
Black Howler Monkey
Northern Lesser Galago
Goeldi's Tamarin
Sumatran Orang-Utan
Western lowland Gorilla
Despite the impressive collection of Frankfurt (21 species) - especially for nocturnal primates - I still believe that San Diego cannot be beaten here.
Attached the list for Frankfurt according to Zootierliste:
White-faced saki
Bonobo
Brown spider monkey
Aye-Aye
Yellow-breasted Capuchin
Pygmy Marmoset
Golden Lion Tamarin
Grey Mouse Lemur
Grey-bellied Night Monkey
Patas Monkey
Ring-tailed Lemur
Cotton-headed Tamarin
Hamadryas Baboon
Grey Slender Loris
White-cheeked Gibbon
Emperor Tamarin
Black Howler Monkey
Northern Lesser Galago
Goeldi's Tamarin
Sumatran Orang-Utan
Western lowland Gorilla
According the its homepage (which is not so easy to read) San Diego zoo is home to the following primates species:
Hamadryas baboon
Gelada
Mandrill
Francois' Langur
Vervet monkeys
Tufted capuchin monkeys
Silvered leaf monkey
Kikuyu colobus monkey
Angolan colobus monkeys
Northern black-crested mangabeys
Allen's swamp monkeys
Red-tailed monkeys
Lesser spot-nosed monkey
Wolf’s guenons
De Brazza's monkey
Siamang
Yellow-cheeked gibbon
Western lowland gorilla
Sumatran Orang-Utan
Bonobo
Ring-tailed Lemur
Coquerel's sifaka
Aye-aye
Red-ruffed Lemur
Red-collard Lemur
Blue-eyed black Lemur
Pygmy slow lorises
Pygmy marmosets (off-exhibit)
Those of you living in the US and/or who have potentially a complete species list - please correct the list if I'm wrong...
Hamadryas baboon
Gelada
Mandrill
Francois' Langur
Vervet monkeys
Tufted capuchin monkeys
Silvered leaf monkey
Kikuyu colobus monkey
Angolan colobus monkeys
Northern black-crested mangabeys
Allen's swamp monkeys
Red-tailed monkeys
Lesser spot-nosed monkey
Wolf’s guenons
De Brazza's monkey
Siamang
Yellow-cheeked gibbon
Western lowland gorilla
Sumatran Orang-Utan
Bonobo
Ring-tailed Lemur
Coquerel's sifaka
Aye-aye
Red-ruffed Lemur
Red-collard Lemur
Blue-eyed black Lemur
Pygmy slow lorises
Pygmy marmosets (off-exhibit)
Those of you living in the US and/or who have potentially a complete species list - please correct the list if I'm wrong...
Doesn't San Diego keep several primate species in some horrible corn-crib cages?
Frankfurt's enclosures are a mixed bag, some are impressively ugly, but not necessarily bad for the animals, whereas the Borgoriwald is quite possibly the best Great Ape house on the continent.
Frankfurt's enclosures are a mixed bag, some are impressively ugly, but not necessarily bad for the animals, whereas the Borgoriwald is quite possibly the best Great Ape house on the continent.
The only 'horrible enclosure' at San Diego I remember was the Aye-Aye cage - however on the other side there is a whole list of world-class enclosures - e.g. at Africa Rocks and several really good enclosures mostly embedded in a real jungle forrest surroundings where primates are mixed with other animals (e.g. pigmy hippos) or different primates (e.g. Orang Utan with Siamangs)
Primates are a great strength of both zoos. I was at Frankfurt Zoo this summer and the Great Ape House there is superb, with indoor enclosures that are perhaps the best I've ever seen in my lifetime of visiting 520 different zoos and aquariums. However, while the outdoor Lowland Gorilla and Sumatran Orangutan exhibits are decent, the outdoor Bonobo yards (with around 16 of the apes) are not up to the high standard of the other great ape habitats.
Even though the Borgori-Wald in Frankfurt is superb, the Small Monkey House is destined for the bulldozer as it's seen better days. It opened in 1962 and although the primates probably don't care, aesthetically it is very poor. There is also a Hamadryas Baboon mock-rock 'blob' that is awful. Frankfurt does have a nice gibbon island and some primates in the iconic Grzimek House that are all in very good exhibits.
While Frankfurt is arguably one of the better zoos in Europe for primates, mainly due to the presence of the Great Ape House, San Diego Zoo is superb for primates. The Lowland Gorilla, Sumatran Orangutan and Bonobo exhibits are all top-notch, although there is no indoor viewing of the apes. Yes, there are Aye-ayes in horrendous corn-crib cages and it boggles my mind that a zoo as famous as San Diego still has such outdated accommodation. However, it is important to note that in locations such as Africa Rocks and Lost Forest there are world-class primate exhibits around every corner. Large, netted exhibits with lots of climbing opportunities are the norm and San Diego is probably, off the top of my head, the best zoo in North America for primates and with at least 25 species on-show. Frankfurt does well in this category, but it cannot top San Diego. I will say that I don't see how this can be a 3-0 victory for either zoo...that would be a harsh assessment.
I'm voting 2-1 San Diego Zoo
P.S. When all of these ZooChat World Cup groups were announced, I originally declared that Group D was the 'Group of Death' and I stand by that statement. Even if, hypothetically, San Diego and Beauval advance, I feel bad for Saint Louis and Frankfurt...two really fantastic zoos.
Even though the Borgori-Wald in Frankfurt is superb, the Small Monkey House is destined for the bulldozer as it's seen better days. It opened in 1962 and although the primates probably don't care, aesthetically it is very poor. There is also a Hamadryas Baboon mock-rock 'blob' that is awful. Frankfurt does have a nice gibbon island and some primates in the iconic Grzimek House that are all in very good exhibits.
While Frankfurt is arguably one of the better zoos in Europe for primates, mainly due to the presence of the Great Ape House, San Diego Zoo is superb for primates. The Lowland Gorilla, Sumatran Orangutan and Bonobo exhibits are all top-notch, although there is no indoor viewing of the apes. Yes, there are Aye-ayes in horrendous corn-crib cages and it boggles my mind that a zoo as famous as San Diego still has such outdated accommodation. However, it is important to note that in locations such as Africa Rocks and Lost Forest there are world-class primate exhibits around every corner. Large, netted exhibits with lots of climbing opportunities are the norm and San Diego is probably, off the top of my head, the best zoo in North America for primates and with at least 25 species on-show. Frankfurt does well in this category, but it cannot top San Diego. I will say that I don't see how this can be a 3-0 victory for either zoo...that would be a harsh assessment.
I'm voting 2-1 San Diego Zoo
P.S. When all of these ZooChat World Cup groups were announced, I originally declared that Group D was the 'Group of Death' and I stand by that statement. Even if, hypothetically, San Diego and Beauval advance, I feel bad for Saint Louis and Frankfurt...two really fantastic zoos.
I agree that this is more of a group of death than the Group with Chester etc...
I also feel bad for St Louis and Frankfurt, because they are really really good. The only reason why neither of them went through is because they got unlucky with their draws - St Louis with birds vs San Diego, Frankfurt with Carnivores against Beauval and again with Primates against SDZ now instead of Misc. mammals, a group where they would do very well indeed...
This is an interesting matchup! I don't know much about Frankfurt, unfortunately.
Anyways, primates. This is probably San Diego's 3rd strongest category, after Birds and Ecotherms.
To get the bad stuff out of the way, those corn-crib cages in the Sun Bear Forest are horrible. Definitely the worst exhibits in the zoo and a blemish on the zoos Primate collection. Aye-ayes for sure are in these exhibits, although I'm not sure if other species reside here.
Other than that, the zoos Primate exhibits are great. Apes do well here, with large yards for Bonobos and Gorillas, and an Orangutan/ Siamang exhibit that is amongst the best I've seen for either species.
The new development Africa Rocks has above average Gelada and Hamadryas Baboon exhibits, as well as a decent Vervet Monkey Exhibit and two large enclosures for Red-Ruffed Lemurs, Blue-Eyed Black Lemurs, Coquerel's Sifaka, Red-collared Lemur and Ring-Tailed Lemur.
The rest of the collection is situated in the Monkey Trails section of the Lost Forest area. The area is confusing and a bit hard to navigate, but there's a good amount of species in above average meshed enclosures.
Overall, I'm voting 2-1 San Diego. Frankfurt seems to be pretty good for Primates, but San Diego is great for them, with a large collection in (mostly) good exhibits.
Anyways, primates. This is probably San Diego's 3rd strongest category, after Birds and Ecotherms.
To get the bad stuff out of the way, those corn-crib cages in the Sun Bear Forest are horrible. Definitely the worst exhibits in the zoo and a blemish on the zoos Primate collection. Aye-ayes for sure are in these exhibits, although I'm not sure if other species reside here.
Other than that, the zoos Primate exhibits are great. Apes do well here, with large yards for Bonobos and Gorillas, and an Orangutan/ Siamang exhibit that is amongst the best I've seen for either species.
The new development Africa Rocks has above average Gelada and Hamadryas Baboon exhibits, as well as a decent Vervet Monkey Exhibit and two large enclosures for Red-Ruffed Lemurs, Blue-Eyed Black Lemurs, Coquerel's Sifaka, Red-collared Lemur and Ring-Tailed Lemur.
The rest of the collection is situated in the Monkey Trails section of the Lost Forest area. The area is confusing and a bit hard to navigate, but there's a good amount of species in above average meshed enclosures.
Overall, I'm voting 2-1 San Diego. Frankfurt seems to be pretty good for Primates, but San Diego is great for them, with a large collection in (mostly) good exhibits.
2-1 for San Diego. Extremely good collection with one major letdown (aye-aye enclosure [P.S. I managed to see one at dusk]). Frankfurt doesn't deserve to be blown away unanimously with its collection, so I gave them the last point.
In addition, they have the following per Anteaterman's list:
Lion-tailed Macaque
Bornean Orangutan
Golden Lion Tamarin
Red-cheeked Gibbon
San Diego Zoo no longer holds Bornean Orang-utan