ZooChat Cup Group D2: Cologne vs Plzen

[TeaLovingDave]

I'm glad to hear the Malagasy aviary seems to have emptied out a bit, as when I visited in September 2018 I found it to be quite overfilled.

Now to deal with this point; I only took a photo of one section of the aviary in question (which actually comprises two aviaries with an indoor housing area between them) but it is by no means small or overstuffed:



The second half is much more thickly-vegetated than this one, by the by.

The two halves contain the following:

Striated Heron (Butorides striata)
Meller's duck (Anas melleri)
Bernier's Teal (Anas bernieri)
Pink pigeon (Nesoenas mayeri)
Madagascar partridge (Margaroperdix madagarensis)
Namaqua dove (Oena capensis)

----

Madagascar crested ibis (Lophotibis cristata)
Madagascar turtle-dove (Nesoenas picturatus picturatus)
Madagascar partridge (Margaroperdix madagarensis)
Lesser Vasa (Coracopsis nigra)
Madagascar lovebird (Agapornis canus)
Madagascar pond-heron (Ardeola idae)
Madagascar Fody (Foudia madagascariensis)
Bernier's Teal (Anas bernieri)

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Now to deal with this point; I only took a photo of one section of the aviary in question (which actually comprises two aviaries with an indoor housing area between them) but it is by no means small or overstuffed:

View attachment 422034

The second half is much more thickly-vegetated than this one, by the by.

The two halves contain the following:

Striated Heron (Butorides striata)
Meller's duck (Anas melleri)
Bernier's Teal (Anas bernieri)
Pink pigeon (Nesoenas mayeri)
Madagascar partridge (Margaroperdix madagarensis)
Namaqua dove (Oena capensis)

----

Madagascar crested ibis (Lophotibis cristata)
Madagascar turtle-dove (Nesoenas picturatus picturatus)
Madagascar partridge (Margaroperdix madagarensis)
Lesser Vasa (Coracopsis nigra)
Madagascar lovebird (Agapornis canus)
Madagascar pond-heron (Ardeola idae)
Madagascar Fody (Foudia madagascariensis)
Bernier's Teal (Anas bernieri)

That does look significantly less crowded than it was during my visit.

~Thylo

 

[TeaLovingDave]

One of the newest additions to the collection - constructed since my July 2017 visit - the set of informational exhibits and small greenhouse enclosures themed around the Macaronesian archipelagos of the Atlantic (Canaries, Cape Verde, Azores and Madeira) represents an aspect of the "island" theme which is entirely absent from the collection at Köln. I believe it is still a work in progress, and is located on the hillside between the Africa House and the aforementioned Succulent House.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I'll add more detailed thoughts on the following topics tomorrow:

1) Australasian collection and exhibits as a whole.
2) Aviaries for Australasian, New Caledonian, and Moluccan / Lesser Sundaic species dotted throughout the zoo.

In the meantime, anyone fancy posting a bit more about what Koln has to offer as regards Australia and New Guinea?

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Due to the extensiveness of @TeaLovingDave's arguments which reminded me of how well some of the other areas of the zoo are and the fact that no one has really provided any photos or otherwise arguments in favor of Cologne I'll be tentatively switching my vote in Plzen's favor.

~Thylo

 

[TZDugong]

Due to the extensiveness of @TeaLovingDave's arguments which reminded me of how well some of the other areas of the zoo are

Really? Just judging from the photos provided, the exhibits look uninspiring and average at best (could be totally wrong). The species list does look great though.

It would also be interesting to hear a case for Cologne, very little has been said of their collection.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Really? Just judging from the photos provided, the exhibits look uninspiring and average at best (could be totally wrong). The species list does look great though.

It would also be interesting to hear a case for Cologne, very little has been said of their collection.

Your latter point is partially why I'm switching my vote, no one has actually given a good argument in favor of Cologne.

The lemur enclosures shown are bad, no two ways about it. The thing is, as others have pointed out, there's a whole other half of that house (the nocturnal wing) which is good. The issue is that the diurnal side which is bad is the really bad while the good nocturnal side isn't photographed. Just as one example, their enclosures for Fat-Tailed Dwarf Lemur and Ganzhorn's Mouse Lemur are very large for their respective species, especially for the former. My issue with the Madagascar aviaries being cramped has also been alleviated so that's another mark I had against Plzen gone. As for the other areas, the island herp display is pretty fantastic. Some of the terrariums are a bit small for my tastes, but most are a decent size and the breeding work they've done for some very rare geckos is incredible. The Macaronesian area, which I admittedly forgot about, is great.

As of right now, there are more arguments in favor of Plzen than against it, and currently there are virtually zero arguments in favor of Cologne.

~Thylo

 

[TZDugong]

I've also switched my vote to 2-1 Plzen, although I still have some problems with them.

As for the other areas, the island herp display is pretty fantastic. Some of the terrariums are a bit small for my tastes, but most are a decent size and the breeding work they've done for some very rare geckos is incredible. The Macaronesian area, which I admittedly forgot about, is great.

I don;t really see what's so fantastic about the Island Herps, apart from the brilliant species list. The exhibits look small and uninspiring, while the presentation seems bland. Rows of reptiles in glass boxes with little imagination doesn't make for a great exhibit imo. The bird thing looks fine, although exhibits again look pretty small and a little repetitive.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I don;t really see what's so fantastic about the Island Herps, apart from the brilliant species list. The exhibits look small and uninspiring, while the presentation seems bland. Rows of reptiles in glass boxes with little imagination doesn't make for a great exhibit imo.

1) They aren't particularly small, and vary in content and shape (something which is even visible in the photographs I provided) so one cannot exactly call them bland or unimaginative.
2) If you're wanting elaborately themed immersive exhibits for reptiles, amphibians or fish you won't get them from Koln either; by and large the excellent aquarium and terrarium there comprises very similar "rows of [reptiles, fish or amphibians] in glass boxes" too.... so even if one follows your criteria for what makes a good exhibit, Plzen would win out in this category due to the superior species list given the comparative exhibit quality is similar in both collections.

. The issue is that the diurnal side which is bad is the really bad while the good nocturnal side isn't photographed.

It's worth noting that even in the diurnal side, the reptile exhibit in the centre of the room (which CGSwans joked about upthread given the label of "Masoala" associated with it) is not bad - don't have my notes on me right now as I'm heading for a train, but as I recall it contains spider tortoises, chameleons and girdled lizards.

 

[lintworm]

I hope someone else can insert photos, but Cologne is much more than the Madagascar house.

In terms of mammals it holds:
Goodmans mouse lemur
Greater bamboo lemur
Blue-eyed black lemur
red ruffed lemur
Belted b&w ruffed lemur
Ring-tailed lemur and Coquerel sifaka are due next year
Lesser hedgehog tenrec
Ring-tailed vontsira

Rodriquez flying fox, which have more than a hundred times more space than in Plzen.

In the rainforest house it keeps Matschies tree kangaroo, Woylie and Sugar glider.

Birds are kept around the zoo and include:
Madagascar crested ibis
Madagascar sacred ibis
Blue coua
Berniers teal
Mellers duck
Pink pigeon
Red fody

Green-naped pheasant pigeon
King BoP
Lesser BoP
Papuab lory
Papuan mountain pigeon
Sclaters crowned pigeon
Twelve-wired BoP
+ A long list of Fruit doves and Imperial pigeons


Blue-faced honeyeater
Wild Budgerigar
Bush thick-knee
Cape barren goose
Channel-billed cuckoo
Chestnut teal
Hardhead
NZ scaup
NZ shoveler
NZ black duck
Kookaburra
Magpie goose
Maned duck
Masked lapwing
Paradise shellduck
Sunda teal
Swift parrot

Hawaiian duck
Hawaiian goose
Laysan teal
Socorro dove

Reptiles, amphibians and fish I will leave to somebody else but here therevus also high diversity in good enclosures.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Birds are kept around the zoo and include:
Madagascar crested ibis
Madagascar sacred ibis
Blue coua
Berniers teal
Mellers duck
Pink pigeon
Red fody

News to me, but pleasantly so!

Green-naped pheasant pigeon
King BoP
Lesser BoP
Papuab lory
Papuan mountain pigeon
Sclaters crowned pigeon
Twelve-wired BoP
+ A long list of Fruit doves and Imperial pigeons

The vast majority of these, of course, are offshow - for whatever weight one does or does not give such things.

On the aforementioned train now, but will try to post a bit about the non-Malagasy collection at Plzen anon.

Really it's a pity that the Philippines have been explicitly ruled out from consideration, as this is an area where both collections shine, and would provide even more scope for direct comparison.

 

[CGSwans]

The margin has dropped from 8 votes to 2 since Dave’s photo essay above. Who is going to lead the rebuttal for Cologne?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

1) Australasian collection and exhibits as a whole.

Omitting aviaries for another post, a quick run-through of the status quo for this section of Plzen's collection:

New Guinea Short-beaked Echidna - currently offshow, but as noted Plzen is one of only three European collections to have bred the species in recent memory (a DNS in 2016 and a successful rearing in 2018) along with Rostock in 2012 and Protivin in 2019.

Dusky Pademelon - as previously noted one of the most successful and productive breeding groups for the species in Europe, if not *the* most successful. We lack photographs in the gallery of their (relatively large) outside paddock, so I'll attach one later today when back on my laptop. This is the best shot we have of their indoors:

Mixed Exhibit 1

I'll have to check my notes to make sure the species list provided by LaughingDove when he uploaded these shots is still accurate, but I think it is. He reported the following:

Magpie Goose, Cape Barren Goose, Australian Shelduck, Emu, Eastern Grey Kangaroo, Black Swan, Great Cormorant, Maned Duck, Paradise Shelduck.

Mixed Exhibit 2

This exhibit contains Emu and Red-necked Wallaby.

Red Kangaroo

Further shots of other exhibits to follow anon, including dingo and the various aviaries.

 

[HOMIN96]

We lack photographs in the gallery of their (relatively large) outside paddock

Here will I object, their exhibit is ufortunately anything, but large.

This exhibit contains Emu and Red-necked Wallaby.

Tamar wallaby as well.

Red Kangaroo

Western gray kangaroo and Swamp wallaby too

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Tamar wallaby as well.

These have returned recently then? The last ones I was aware of died in 2017, and I didn't see any in October this year.

 

[lintworm]

@Hongabonga and @Ursus care to explain their 3-0 vote in such a close contest?

 

[Ursus]

@lintworm
I must've misclicked as I didn't intend to give a flat 3-0.
Since as you mentioned; it;s a close match.

 

[HOMIN96]

These have returned recently then? The last ones I was aware of died in 2017, and I didn't see any in October this year.

Annual report lists them present in both 2017 and 2018 editions and I am pretty sure I saw them this summer as well...Although I can't say anything about my November visit as I didn't bother to visit that corner of the zoo But I would hazard a guess that they are still there and you were just unlucky

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Annual report lists them present in both 2017 and 2018 editions and I am pretty sure I saw them this summer as well...Although I can't say anything about my November visit as I didn't bother to visit that corner of the zoo But I would hazard a guess that they are still there and you were just unlucky

I suspect there's a translation confusion happening somewhere, as the annual reports make clear the last Tammar Wallaby died in 2016 and haven't returned so I think you perhaps mean Parma Wallaby?

 

[HOMIN96]

I suspect there's a translation confusion happening somewhere, as the annual reports make clear the last Tammar Wallaby died in 2016 and haven't returned so I think you perhaps mean Parma Wallaby?

*multiple facepalms*

Jesus...I'm going to log off and will never show up here again...