ZooChat Cup Group D2: Plzen vs San Diego

[Coelacanth18]

@TeaLovingDave makes some persuasive points for me, including:

- the beautiful and unusual little Siberian aviary and breeding of a Siberian songbird;
- the cat exhibits that appear to be of similar or slightly better quality than San Diego's;
- some great hoofstock exhibits, including a forested goral pen and a rhino paddock with a lake to swim in;
- a 3 acre (!!!) wooded brown bear enclosure;
- the breeding of Kaiser's newts; Luzon owls; and all three Philippine cloud rats
- (posted by @ThylacineAlive) their collection of hornbills, including 2 tarictics

For now I'm switching over to 2-1 Plzen, but it's still pretty close. San Diego has a lot of solid primate habitats and a good collection of species, and its massive aviaries filled with rare tropical Asian birds keeps it competitive with Plzen's larger, more temperate collection in the hexagonal cages. It also still has twice as many herps as Plzen, and the gharials are a big plus for me. However, I don't think San Diego's hoofstock and carnivore habitats are up to snuff compared to Plzen's, and San Diego's most signature Asian area (Panda Canyon) is now without monochromatic bears and only has 3 other species in average/mediocre digs: Sichuan takin, red panda and Mangshan pitviper.

Mangshan pit viper

Red panda

Sichuan takin

It wouldn't take much to sway me in the other direction; more information about San Diego's conservation work or breeding success with any relevant species could tip it back in the other direction.

 

[amur leopard]

SDZ conservation initiatives:

• Giant pandas: they use acoustic sensors to monitor the pandas, especially how long the pandas spend feeding.
• Sumatran tigers: SDZ has trained 130 field technicians in tracking and sensoring techniques, who conduct a Sumatra-wide survey of the number of wild tigers remaining with camera traps, sensors and other devices. The data they receive will provide trends over the last ten years for the number of tigers remaining.
• They fly over vast areas of wilderness to determine how much of it is a fit habitat for a certain species.
• They work with remote native communities in South-East Asia to understand their relationships with the animals and try to change how they view the animals for the better by making them realise that the animals could provide a living for the people in industries such as wildlife tourism.
• Blue-crowned laughingthrush: They are studying the parasites that infect these Critically Endangered birds and learning if the wild individuals have the same parasite as their captive counterparts and how they subsequently deal with it. This helps fight the spread of the parasite that has decimated the laughingthrush's numbers.
• Asian reptiles: They are developing cryopreservation techniques for reptiles, using Burmese pythons as model species. This will allow reptile cells to be frozen and saved for future use if the situation ever gets desperate enough. They will be given to the Frozen Zoo.
• The Frozen Zoo is essentially the genes and DNA from hundreds of species in a laboratory, allowing the scientists to recreate the animal. This is the technique that will be used to save the Northern White rhino, since many samples of their sperm and eggs are found in the laboratory.
• Przewalski's horse: They are working with other zoos to create genetic diversity in a largely inbred population of horses. This is to ensure their survival as well as to avoid deformities to future horses.
• Fighting the trade of animal parts in Asia is also an essential part of their conservation. They have started Outreach programs for Saiga, Pangolins, Asiatic black bears and Sun bears, allowing their populations to recover.
• Asian elephants in Myanmar: they research the elephants' behaviour and how they come into conflict with the local people. They then educate the locals about logging and the impact it has on the local wildlife.
• They have rescued many Sloth bears from the 'Dancing bear' trade in India and subsequently studied their recovery and ensuring behaviour, whilst taking care of them and giving them professional veterinary care.

List of the animals they participate in conservation initiatives to save:

• Giant panda
• Sumatran tiger
• Sumatran orangutan
• Przewalski's horse
• Saiga
• Red panda
• Indian rhinoceros
• Sun bear
• Asian elephant
• Sloth bear
• Snow leopard

 

[NigeW]

@TeaLovingDave makes a solid case for Plzen, but although I vote with some hesitation as I haven't been to Plzen personally, I'm going to vote 2-1 San Diego. There are some gems, the walkthrough aviaries are supremely good, and the overall standard takes some beating.

At this stage of the competition, these ties are tough.

 

[CGSwans]

At this stage of the competition, these ties are tough.

I regret nothing.

 

[Coelacanth18]

SDZ conservation initiatives:

• Giant pandas: they use acoustic sensors to monitor the pandas, especially how long the pandas spend feeding.

Not anymore but the rest of your conservation post is very convincing. I may well switch back.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

At this stage of the competition, these ties are tough.

Indeed - it really is a close-run thing at this point in time I'm hoping to help @Haasje rethink their somewhat unfair hardline against Plzen, but otherwise just glad to have helped shuffle things into a more even contest.

If I have a chance - unlikely, as I'm about to head out for work - I'll root through the Plzen annual reports to see what conservation projects they are listed as working within.

 

[lintworm]

If I have a chance - unlikely, as I'm about to head out for work - I'll root through the Plzen annual reports to see what conservation projects they are listed as working within.

In monetary terms it is unlikely to be anything near San Diego, but San Diego also has a budget that is likely more than 20 times higher than Plzen. It would still be interesting to see how much either of them invests in conservation as a proportion of the total budget.

 

[HOMIN96]

In monetary terms it is unlikely to be anything near San Diego, but San Diego also has a budget that is likely more than 20 times higher than Plzen. It would still be interesting to see how much either of them invests in conservation as a proportion of the total budget.

From the 2018 annual report:

"We announced a public collection for financing preservation projects that we supported in 2018. The collection will be finished on 29th March 2021. By the end of 2018, the amount reached to CZK 196,335,78. The sum was divided to the four projects as follows: 36% (CZK 70,681) to the Philippine Talarak, 22% the Iran project Latifi (CZK 43,194), the Corn Crake in the Pilsen region 16% (CZK 31,417) and the project of the Little Owl gained 26% (CZK 51,047). The second public collection was organised to help the EAZA campaign “Silent Forest” and it will last from 23rd March 2018 till 31th December 2019. By the end of 2018, we collected total of CZK 68 373. This money will support also one of the six preservation projects – the Sumatran Songbird Sanctuary in Indonesia."

Participation on the Latifi project ended this November, the project is now fully run by the Iranian side.

To add to this, Plzen also supports:

• Sahamalaza project (Madagascar)
  
• Derbianus (Senegal)
  
• Pesir Balikpapan (Borneo) - new since 2018
• Saola (Vietnam, Laos) - new since 2018
• Tanduk Satu - monitoring of reptiles in eastern Java, new since November 2019

 

[lintworm]

From the 2018 annual report:

"We announced a public collection for financing preservation projects that we supported in 2018. The collection will be finished on 29th March 2021. By the end of 2018, the amount reached to CZK 196,335,78. The sum was divided to the four projects as follows: 36% (CZK 70,681) to the Philippine Talarak, 22% the Iran project Latifi (CZK 43,194), the Corn Crake in the Pilsen region 16% (CZK 31,417) and the project of the Little Owl gained 26% (CZK 51,047). The second public collection was organised to help the EAZA campaign “Silent Forest” and it will last from 23rd March 2018 till 31th December 2019. By the end of 2018, we collected total of CZK 68 373. This money will support also one of the six preservation projects – the Sumatran Songbird Sanctuary in Indonesia."

Participation on the Latifi project ended this November, the project is now fully run by the Iranian side.

To add to this, Plzen also supports:

• Sahamalaza project (Madagascar)
  
• Derbianus (Senegal)
  
• Pesir Balikpapan (Borneo) - new since 2018
• Saola (Vietnam, Laos) - new since 2018
• Tanduk Satu - monitoring of reptiles in eastern Java, new since November 2019

Somehow it looks really impressive in CZK, in US dollars it is 8570 USD... But given the financial situation, especially compared to San Diego, of most Czech zoos anything is welcome...

Annual budget of Zoo Plzen is ~ 6 million USD

 

[HOMIN96]

You are (Or the person who wrote that doesn't know how to write numbers in English correctly, which is very plausible and I seriously doubt that zoo hires someone to do the correction)

The number is in whole crowns, with the last two numbers represent hellers (old type of currency, equivalent to penny or cent).

 

[amur leopard]

CZK 196,335,78

Ah the strange European representation of numbers. I thought this was 196 million CZK for a second

 

[HOMIN96]

of most Czech zoos anything is welcome...

Especially considering the fact that Plzen is actually one of the financially weaker zoos here...

196 million CZK for a second

I mean, I wouldn't be mad if people gave to conservation about 60 million more than Plzen's yearly revenue is ...although at that point I would doubt if the whole amount would go the right way...

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Of the projects cited by @HOMIN96 which apply to this category I would be interested to know what the following comprise, if it is known:

36% (CZK 70,681) to the Philippine Talarak, 2

22% the Iran project Latifi (CZK 43,194),

• Pesir Balikpapan (Borneo) - new since 2018

The following two speak for themselves but are, I feel, pretty important:

The second public collection was organised to help the EAZA campaign “Silent Forest” and it will last from 23rd March 2018 till 31th December 2019.

• Saola (Vietnam, Laos) - new since 2018

 

[Vision]

You are (Or the person who wrote that doesn't know how to write numbers in English correctly, which is very plausible and I seriously doubt that zoo hires someone to do the correction)

The number is in whole crowns, with the last two numbers represent hellers (old type of currency, equivalent to penny or cent).

Sorry, I removed my post before you replied so now your comment probably looks a bit weird.

I was indeed confused by the numbers - usually I think it would be depicted as CZK 196,335.78 in the English way, or CZK 196.335,78 in the European (at least Dutch) way - two commas is very confusing and made it seem to me like the number should just be read as a whole, in which it becomes two whole orders of magnitude bigger!

I too would be interested in knowing the relative financial input of San Diego Zoo in Asian programmes!

 

[HOMIN96]

Of the projects cited by @HOMIN96 which apply to this category I would be interested to know what the following comprise, if it is known:

For Talarak, the money was used for reconstruction of aviaries in the Talarak breeding centre, which allowed them to acquire Walden's hornbills(Rhabdotorrhinus waldeni).

For Latifi project, most of the money went to education and propagation materials.

 

[Coelacanth18]

Worth noting that four of Plzen's Asian conservation projects are all less than 2 years old, which could indicate a ramping up of conservation funding in that region. The difference in financial situation between Plzen and San Diego is an interesting one... especially since San Diego charges roughly 11 times the admission price that Plzen does ($58 USD for SD versus $5.23 USD for Plzen in summer).

It would still be interesting to see how much either of them invests in conservation as a proportion of the total budget.

According to San Diego's 2018 financial report, it spent ~8.4% of its revenue on conservation and research; this totals to $28.7 million USD: https://zoo.sandiegozoo.org/sites/d...alSocietyofSanDiegoAuditedFinancialReport.pdf
Note that this is the *entire* conservation and research budget; I don't have the breakdown for Asia-specific programs.

Is that 196k CZK for all conservation funding? Because if it is, then Plzen only spends $8,570 USD on conservation out of a $6 million dollar budget, which is ~0.14%... a stark contrast from San Diego's proportion.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I was indeed confused by the numbers - usually I think it would be depicted as CZK 196,335.78 in the English way, or CZK 196.335,78 in the European (at least Dutch) way - two commas is very confusing and made it seem to me like the number should just be read as a whole, in which

Given the fact the Heller is no longer even in circulation I am somewhat surprised the figure wasn't merely rounded to CZK 196,336

 

[amur leopard]

Worth noting that four of Plzen's Asian conservation projects are all less than 2 years old, which could indicate a ramping up of conservation funding in that region. The difference in financial situation between Plzen and San Diego is an interesting one... especially since San Diego charges roughly 12 times the admission price that Plzen does ($58 USD for SD versus $5.23 USD for Plzen in summer).



According to San Diego's 2018 financial report, it spent ~8.4% of its revenue on conservation and research; this totals to $28.7 million USD: https://zoo.sandiegozoo.org/sites/d...alSocietyofSanDiegoAuditedFinancialReport.pdf
Note that this is the *entire* conservation and research budget; I don't have the breakdown for Asia-specific programs.

Is that 196k CZK for all conservation funding? Because if it is, then Plzen only spends $8,570 USD on conservation out of a $6 million dollar budget, which is ~0.14%... a stark contrast from San Diego's proportion.

Yes... unfortunately Plzen spends blows all its budget on hiring people to find the most obscure rodent species in the deepest, darkest corner of the Internet so they can import it

 

[Vision]

Given the fact the Heller is no longer even in circulation I am somewhat surprised the figure wasn't merely rounded to CZK 196,336

Yep, that's what I was expecting as well and definitely didn't help with the interpretation of the number!

 

[ThylacineAlive]

SDZ conservation initiatives:

• Giant pandas: they use acoustic sensors to monitor the pandas, especially how long the pandas spend feeding.

I don't think we need to have another discussion on how little Western zoos keeping pandas really accomplishes...

• The Frozen Zoo is essentially the genes and DNA from hundreds of species in a laboratory, allowing the scientists to recreate the animal. This is the technique that will be used to save the Northern White rhino, since many samples of their sperm and eggs are found in the laboratory.

This is the safari park..

• Przewalski's horse: They are working with other zoos to create genetic diversity in a largely inbred population of horses. This is to ensure their survival as well as to avoid deformities to future horses.

Is this not all zoos participating in the wild horse program?

• Asian elephants in Myanmar: they research the elephants' behaviour and how they come into conflict with the local people. They then educate the locals about logging and the impact it has on the local wildlife.

They also maintain a mixed herd of African and Asian Elephants...

~Thylo