ZooChat Cup Group F: Antwerp vs Zurich
- Thread starter CGSwans
- Start date
On Antwerp's side:
- Asian elephant
- Balabac chevrotain
- Cape buffalo
- Eastern bongo
- Giraffe
- Hartmann's mountain zebra
- Hippopotamus
- Kirk's dik-dik
- Malayan tapir
- Mishmi takin
- Okapi
- Red duiker
- Reeves' muntjac
- Grevy's zebra
- Lowland tapir
- Asian elephant
- Arabian oryx
- Blackbuck
- Guanaco
- Java mouse deer
- Nilgai
- Persian gazelle
- Myanmar thamin
- Vicuna
Let me do a list comparison on this category:
Both: Asian elephant (both also have Indian in addition to unspecified).
Antwerp: Malayan tapir, Hartmann's mountain zebra, Balabac chevrotain, Cape buffalo, eastern bongo, giraffe, common hippopotamus, Kirk's dik-dik, Mishmi takin, okapi, red duiker, Reeve's muntjac (with the intention to hold white rhinos soon)
Zurich: Brazilian tapir, Grevy's zebra, Arabian oryx, blackbuck, guanaco, Javan mouse-deer, Myanmar thamin, nilgai, Persian gazelle, vicuna
Antwerp: 13, Zurich: 11
In terms of unique families:
Antwerp: 2 (giraffes, hippos) (soon to be 3)
Zurich: 1 (camelids)
Antwerp wins on species numbers, but I'll wait for enclosure wise.
Both: Asian elephant (both also have Indian in addition to unspecified).
Antwerp: Malayan tapir, Hartmann's mountain zebra, Balabac chevrotain, Cape buffalo, eastern bongo, giraffe, common hippopotamus, Kirk's dik-dik, Mishmi takin, okapi, red duiker, Reeve's muntjac (with the intention to hold white rhinos soon)
Zurich: Brazilian tapir, Grevy's zebra, Arabian oryx, blackbuck, guanaco, Javan mouse-deer, Myanmar thamin, nilgai, Persian gazelle, vicuna
Antwerp: 13, Zurich: 11
In terms of unique families:
Antwerp: 2 (giraffes, hippos) (soon to be 3)
Zurich: 1 (camelids)
Antwerp wins on species numbers, but I'll wait for enclosure wise.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Antwerp’s Buffalo Aviary is simply wonderful: the ungulates look fantastic because of the setting, and the birds that enhance things. The whole is definitely greater than the sum of the individual parts. And the Egyptian Temple is one of the great European zoo buildings: if you want dodgy ethnographic theming, at least do it with beauty and elegance. And a beautiful Okapi House too.
Zürich’s Elephant House is clearly fantastic (even if the outside areas are not as impressive as the house itself), but the rest is not the zoo’s current strength. I think I’m right in saying that there are no longer Ibex in with the Geladas, which is a pity as that’s a great exhibit.
Antwerp for me!
Zürich’s Elephant House is clearly fantastic (even if the outside areas are not as impressive as the house itself), but the rest is not the zoo’s current strength. I think I’m right in saying that there are no longer Ibex in with the Geladas, which is a pity as that’s a great exhibit.
Antwerp for me!
Antwerp's herbivore enclosures:
A fantastic buffalo and bird aviary enclosure which isn't done justice in the photo sadly.
A frankly terrible hippo pool
A good hippo outdoor enclosure with a massive lake
A good verging on very good takin enclosure
And a decent bongo enclosure
Conclusion: enclosures ranging from terrible to excellent, but with a better species list than Zurich...
A fantastic buffalo and bird aviary enclosure which isn't done justice in the photo sadly.
A frankly terrible hippo pool
A good hippo outdoor enclosure with a massive lake
A good verging on very good takin enclosure
And a decent bongo enclosure
Conclusion: enclosures ranging from terrible to excellent, but with a better species list than Zurich...
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Don't forget their okapis. They have a huge impact with the species at a zoo level.
There wasn't really a photo of their exhibit on Zoochat...
From the photos Antwerps indoor hippo pool looks pretty similar to many other zoos, its just an older setup. Many zoos hide this kind of setup from the visitor. I feel its a low blow to call it terrible, while providing a photo that does not even show the whole accommodation.
Here is what Zurich has to offer:
Easily the best elephant indoor enclosure in Europe, one of the best Pantanal exhibits in the world, and a massive elephant pool with fish!
However, it has the disadvantage in terms of species count...
Easily the best elephant indoor enclosure in Europe, one of the best Pantanal exhibits in the world, and a massive elephant pool with fish!
However, it has the disadvantage in terms of species count...
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Ok then, here are more photos
(Although I still think it is terrible, and at least I am providing photos at all
)
EDIT: Sorry about the thumbnail, forgot to make it a full image.
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Oh, ok.
I visited Antwerp a bit more than 2 years ago. I obviously think that their buffalo aviary was fantastic. Most of the exhibits are good to excellent, although there is a letdown with the small indoor hippo enclosure (which is partially mitigated by an outstanding outdoor area)
2-1 Antwerp for me.
Anyway, based on what I have seen, I am going 2-1 Zurich. They have the better exhibits despite being behind on species count and unique genera.
Really? 3-0 ? I think Kaeng Krachan deserves a point on its own, not to mention all the other fantastic exhibits they have...
They maybe have the disadvantage in terms of sepcies numbers but...
I'm excited to see how this thread develops... The votes are very even and spread out, and there are people voting 3-0 on both sides...
I'm fairly certain that Antwerps dik-diks moved to Planckendael a while ago. They're not signed afaik, and I haven't seen the door to their indoor enclosure open in a long time. They're a pretty reclusive species though, so I may be wrong.
Antwerp has excellent enclosures for Cape buffalo, Balabac chevrotain, red duiker (less excellent for okapi, but still very good for them), and muntjac. Good enclosures for okapi, takin, bongo, giraffe, Hartmann's mountain zebra, and Malayan tapir.
However, the indoor enclosures for elephants and hippos are pretty bad, and I hope both these species will be phased out soon-ish since Antwerp is just too small a zoo to hold these animals without sacrificing a lot of precious space. Outdoor enclosures are on the small side, but still okay.
I'm still going for Antwerp though, on account of the buffalo aviary (which is one of my favourite zoo enclosures ever), their excellent breeding record for the chevrotains, okapis, tapirs, and takins (although most of their breeding group has now moved out).
Antwerp has excellent enclosures for Cape buffalo, Balabac chevrotain, red duiker (less excellent for okapi, but still very good for them), and muntjac. Good enclosures for okapi, takin, bongo, giraffe, Hartmann's mountain zebra, and Malayan tapir.
However, the indoor enclosures for elephants and hippos are pretty bad, and I hope both these species will be phased out soon-ish since Antwerp is just too small a zoo to hold these animals without sacrificing a lot of precious space. Outdoor enclosures are on the small side, but still okay.
I'm still going for Antwerp though, on account of the buffalo aviary (which is one of my favourite zoo enclosures ever), their excellent breeding record for the chevrotains, okapis, tapirs, and takins (although most of their breeding group has now moved out).
Have heard great things, about Zurich and hope to visit it in December. The Tibetan zone and Kaeng Krachan elephant house, seems like the star hoofed complexes here with a Persian gazelle as a additional gem. Unfortunately the Tibetan zone can not be serious advantage for Zurich, since holding domestic forms, but Elephant building named on a Thailand National park have a strong conservation role. 2 % of the restaurant incomes goes for Kaeng Krachan and Masola.
Been in Antwerp last year and really loved the zoo. The Cape Buffalo aviary is of course unique, but Egyptian temple, Takin rocks and Okapi conservation history are also in favour of Antwerp. The Balabac chevrotain can be mentioned as a small gem in the Night house.
For me is 2:1 for Antwerp.
Been in Antwerp last year and really loved the zoo. The Cape Buffalo aviary is of course unique, but Egyptian temple, Takin rocks and Okapi conservation history are also in favour of Antwerp. The Balabac chevrotain can be mentioned as a small gem in the Night house.
For me is 2:1 for Antwerp.
Zootierliste still lists them at Antwerp
I voted Zurich 3 Antwerp 0, but will change that to 2-1.
Antwerp strengths in terms of ungulates are the buildings, not so much animal welfare. The Moorish temple with Okapi & Red duiker is a lovely building, but the enclosures are mostly smallish, but Antwerp's record with this species impressive. Similarly the Egyptian temple with Giraffe, Zebra and Elephants is one of the most beautiful zoo buildings in Europe, but especially for the Elephants it does not suffice at all... The Buffalo aviary is a wonderful enclosure, but mainly because of the birds, for the Buffalo it is fairly average, but still clearly better than in neighboring zoos with this species. As a note, the nocturnal house will close soon (unfortunately), I am not sure what will happen with the Balabac kanchil. The Tahr and Takin are also due to leave / have left already and will make place for Barbary sheep (pure subspecies), but the paperwork to get these from Spain is quite demanding...
Ungulates are still not Zurich's strength, but they have what is I think the most impressive Elephant complex on the continent. There is broad agreement that the indoor housing is easily the best in Europe, but outdoors is also good. It might not be very spacious, but is filled with enrichment and feeding stations, so it makes for very active elephants. The whole complex is so versatile that they can keep 3 separate Elephant groups there in perfectly fine circumstances, as they have 2 full grown bulls + 2 separated matriarchal lines. They would be happy to send one of the female groups away, but they haven't found a zoo that could give the same level of care.... By having multiple off-show and on-show indoor and outdoor enclosures all groups are rotated throughout the day between the different enclosures, which keeps the Elephants as active as possible. Such excellence alone would be good enough for me to give Zurich my points and the other Hoofstock also cannot complain, though most of their paddocks are somewhat more boring. Noteworthy for people who consider future developments, in 2020 the Lewa savanna will open, which will be a huge paddock for White rhino, Reticulated giraffe and Grevy zebra mixed with several antelope species.
In terms of conservation Zurich contributes financially to Elephant protection in Kraeng Krachan NP in Thailand as well as to the Lewa conservancy in Kenya which has high densities of white + black rhino, as well as other endangered species like Grevy zebra. Total contributions to conservation of Zurich are about 1.2 million USD per year, but I am not sure how much money goes to these two projects.
Antwerp strengths in terms of ungulates are the buildings, not so much animal welfare. The Moorish temple with Okapi & Red duiker is a lovely building, but the enclosures are mostly smallish, but Antwerp's record with this species impressive. Similarly the Egyptian temple with Giraffe, Zebra and Elephants is one of the most beautiful zoo buildings in Europe, but especially for the Elephants it does not suffice at all... The Buffalo aviary is a wonderful enclosure, but mainly because of the birds, for the Buffalo it is fairly average, but still clearly better than in neighboring zoos with this species. As a note, the nocturnal house will close soon (unfortunately), I am not sure what will happen with the Balabac kanchil. The Tahr and Takin are also due to leave / have left already and will make place for Barbary sheep (pure subspecies), but the paperwork to get these from Spain is quite demanding...
Ungulates are still not Zurich's strength, but they have what is I think the most impressive Elephant complex on the continent. There is broad agreement that the indoor housing is easily the best in Europe, but outdoors is also good. It might not be very spacious, but is filled with enrichment and feeding stations, so it makes for very active elephants. The whole complex is so versatile that they can keep 3 separate Elephant groups there in perfectly fine circumstances, as they have 2 full grown bulls + 2 separated matriarchal lines. They would be happy to send one of the female groups away, but they haven't found a zoo that could give the same level of care.... By having multiple off-show and on-show indoor and outdoor enclosures all groups are rotated throughout the day between the different enclosures, which keeps the Elephants as active as possible. Such excellence alone would be good enough for me to give Zurich my points and the other Hoofstock also cannot complain, though most of their paddocks are somewhat more boring. Noteworthy for people who consider future developments, in 2020 the Lewa savanna will open, which will be a huge paddock for White rhino, Reticulated giraffe and Grevy zebra mixed with several antelope species.
In terms of conservation Zurich contributes financially to Elephant protection in Kraeng Krachan NP in Thailand as well as to the Lewa conservancy in Kenya which has high densities of white + black rhino, as well as other endangered species like Grevy zebra. Total contributions to conservation of Zurich are about 1.2 million USD per year, but I am not sure how much money goes to these two projects.
Only a few hours in and the voting is this close? We're in for a real treat here.
There is no way that this match should be 3-0 to either zoo. Zurich has what is generally considered one of the world's premier elephant complexes, with a decent outdoor area and a phenomenal indoor zone. That's worth at least a point right there. Antwerp has the fantastic 'Buffalo Aviary', as well as the beautiful and historic Egyptian-themed elephant/giraffe/zebra house. That's worth a point right there. So which zoo deserves the 2-1 victory?
Antwerp's Okapi/duiker yards are not very large at all, and the elephant exhibit is puny. Antwerp may have slightly more species (13 to 11), but the exhibits are nothing spectacular whatsoever. Zurich has the excellent Pantanal zone, some average hoofstock yards, and the aforementioned elephant accommodation.
My vote is 2-1 Zurich
Antwerp's Okapi/duiker yards are not very large at all, and the elephant exhibit is puny. Antwerp may have slightly more species (13 to 11), but the exhibits are nothing spectacular whatsoever. Zurich has the excellent Pantanal zone, some average hoofstock yards, and the aforementioned elephant accommodation.
My vote is 2-1 Zurich