I also feel that a 3-0 score should be an unusual occurrence, I even gave St Louis a point against San Diego originally.
ZooChat Cup Group F: Leipzig vs Zurich
- Thread starter CGSwans
- Start date
I also feel that a 3-0 score should be an unusual occurrence, I even gave St Louis a point against San Diego originally.
@amur leopard
If you consult Leipzig's website and discount the closed terrarium, there are currently 14 reptile species (versus 44 at Zurich) and 11 amphibian species (versus 15 at Zurich) on display, all in Gondwanaland. So your entire argument falls flat on its face.
If you consult Leipzig's website and discount the closed terrarium, there are currently 14 reptile species (versus 44 at Zurich) and 11 amphibian species (versus 15 at Zurich) on display, all in Gondwanaland. So your entire argument falls flat on its face.
I can see many contenders to Zurich - even though Masoala is an ace up its sleeve in multiple categories of this competition. If species counts are so important to you, how can anyone win against Moscow, Wroclaw, Plsen, or Berlin?
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We are not discounting the closed terrarium because these species are part of the collection, they are just not on-show. They are still counted, I believe, if they are off-show.
Also tbf Leipzig's website clearly doesn't say all the species it has for fear of putting people off. If zoo websites listed all the species they had, they would have a really long page on the one hand and a very unhappy visitor on the other imo.
I never suggested only talking about the species numbers, in which case, you are right, Moscow, Berlin, Plzen and Wroclaw are the best. I do not say that we should only be taking into account the collection (in which case Leipzig would win), but I am saying that Leipzig's collection is not getting enough attention, and so people are voting based purely on enclosure quality and not taking into account Leipzig's superior collection
Oh man I wish Chinese pangolins were ectotherms.
I think you're not giving yourself enough credit for arguing the case for Leipzig, because people clearly are taking into account Leipzig's (offshow) collection.
I do however think, this sets a problematic precedent. Though this precedent has unfortunately - and arguably much more problematically - already been set in the Berlin vs. Detroit match. If we fully count unconfirmable off-show (even if only temporarily) collections, why should we completely discount confirmed new developments, which are already set in stone, cement, glass, grass, bushes, and trees, such as Zurich's Lewa, Wuppertal's Aralandia (if they were in the competition), or Beauval's tropical dome?
I think there is a slight difference between these and the terrarium, the difference being, essentially, that the terrarium and the aquarium existed before. However, I would be willing to allow Lewa to compete, but are there any ectotherms exhibited? If not, it is of no relevance to the tie.
I will argue that case, when and if it applies. Suffice it to say, I believe such things should count for something, but shouldn't count for much. Seen through this lens, the current votes in this competition are still rather generous for Leipzig. In the case of Detroit vs. Berlin, i feel this cost Detroit what should have been a decisive victory, because without the carnivore house, Berlin's collection collapses considerably, and hence, so should have the rationale for voting pro Berlin.
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I personally agree that bts species should count, and I don't think we should entirely discount the aquarium if it's planned to reopen in the nearish future. I'm fairly certain Leipzig does have more than 14 reptiles on-display outside of the Terrarium anyhow. All of this adds up to Leipzig's one point, but I still feel Zurich deserves the win even if it doesn't have a higher species count (for me, a higher species count really only gets the win if the husbandry is up to par and the difference is really massive).
As a side note, Zurich has never really been on my radar much but the information and photos provided on this thread make it sound pretty spectacular!
~Thylo
As a side note, Zurich has never really been on my radar much but the information and photos provided on this thread make it sound pretty spectacular!
~Thylo