ZooChat Cup Group G: Berlin Tierpark vs Woodland Park

[snowleopard]

Some photos from WPZ:

Jaguar Cove (with cat contemplating a dip into the spacious pool)

Jaguar Cove - Prowling Cat - ZooChat

Main view of Jaguar Cove exhibit (award-winning exhibit):

Jaguar Cove - ZooChat

African Lion exhibit (with sleeping lions barely visible):

Lion Exhibit - ZooChat

Grizzly Bear exhibit (award-winning and world-class):

Grizzly Bear Exhibit - Underwater Viewing Area - ZooChat

Grizzly Bear exhibit (there are at least half-a-dozen viewpoints):

Grizzly Bear Exhibit - ZooChat

North American River Otter exhibit:

North American River Otter Exhibit - ZooChat

Snow Leopard exhibit (the photo shows a third of the enclosure):

Snow Leopard Exhibit - ZooChat

Red Panda exhibit (it goes back a long way):

Red Panda Exhibit - ZooChat

Malayan Tiger exhibit:

Banyan Wilds - Malayan Tiger Exhibit (New in 2015) - ZooChat

50% of the Maned Wolf exhibit (used to be home to Japanese Serow):

Japanese Serow Exhibit - ZooChat

Ocelot exhibit (small, poor, entirely indoor viewing, although I hardly ever see a cat):

Ocelot Exhibit - ZooChat

 

[amur leopard]

Yeah, it really is. I'm with @lintworm in calling that a disgrace.

That photo swapped me over to 2-1 for Woodland Park.

Gotta agree with you on that one. Ratels are known for being feisty little things, but they are by no means small and have an extremely high metabolism, resulting in a lot of movement daily. That enclosure is grossly inadequate whatever the circumstances; I don't see anyone converting over to the Tierpark from that...

Some photos from WPZ:

Jaguar Cove (with cat contemplating a dip into the spacious pool)

Jaguar Cove - Prowling Cat - ZooChat

Main view of Jaguar Cove exhibit (award-winning exhibit):

Jaguar Cove - ZooChat

African Lion exhibit (with sleeping lions barely visible):

Lion Exhibit - ZooChat

Grizzly Bear exhibit (award-winning and world-class):

Grizzly Bear Exhibit - Underwater Viewing Area - ZooChat

Grizzly Bear exhibit (there are at least half-a-dozen viewpoints):

Grizzly Bear Exhibit - ZooChat

North American River Otter exhibit:

North American River Otter Exhibit - ZooChat

Snow Leopard exhibit (the photo shows a third of the enclosure):

Snow Leopard Exhibit - ZooChat

Red Panda exhibit (it goes back a long way):

Red Panda Exhibit - ZooChat

Malayan Tiger exhibit:

Banyan Wilds - Malayan Tiger Exhibit (New in 2015) - ZooChat

50% of the Maned Wolf exhibit (used to be home to Japanese Serow):

Japanese Serow Exhibit - ZooChat

Ocelot exhibit (small, poor, entirely indoor viewing, although I hardly ever see a cat):

Ocelot Exhibit - ZooChat

Hmmmm. The jaguar exhibit looks magnificent. Like truly amazing. The grizzly bear exhibit is very good as well, not quite the same-standard but still very good, and the river otter exhibit seems to be very nice as well. The snow leopard exhibit is average, and the red panda exhibit is as well from the photo, although the viewing is obstructed by a fence so.... The maned wolf one seems fine, not great for serows but hey... The ocelot exhibit could do with being larger, and the tiger exhibit can't really be seen from the photo so I withhold my judgement. The jaguar and bear exhibits make me vote 2-1 woodland park, although the last few slightly let the standard down.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

While the Ratel enclosure definitely is/was inappropriate for that species, I had no issue with any of the other enclosures in that row from memory. they were all larger and all held smaller carnivores. Regardless, aren't they no longer in use? Kind of seem unfair to me to vote against Tierpark Berlin for a single enclosure that no longer houses anything.

~Thylo

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Hmmmm. The jaguar exhibit looks magnificent. Like truly amazing. The grizzly bear exhibit is very good as well, not quite the same-standard but still very good, and the river otter exhibit seems to be very nice as well. The snow leopard exhibit is average, and the red panda exhibit is as well from the photo, although the viewing is obstructed by a fence so.... The maned wolf one seems fine, not great for serows but hey... The ocelot exhibit could do with being larger, and the tiger exhibit can't really be seen from the photo so I withhold my judgement. The jaguar and bear exhibits make me vote 2-1 woodland park, although the last few slightly let the standard down.

How big is that enclosure? Like with the tiger, the photos provided don't actually show much of enclosure. Yeah it's very lush and looks good but the photos, to me, look like they only show the very front portion. I'm not saying it's bad, I don't know, but the photo isn't very clear to me is all I'm saying.

~Thylo

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Regardless, aren't they no longer in use? Kind of seem unfair to me to vote against Tierpark Berlin for a single enclosure that no longer houses anything.

Hopefully we'll hear clarification one way or another on the matter before the match ends - which is why I've tagged markmeier into the discussion - and if off-exhibit areas which contain animals are fair play, it might be worth highlighting the other (certainly better) exhibits which have recently gone off-display, such as the outdoor tiger exhibits.

 

[Coelacanth18]

@snowleopard beat me to the punch while I was drafting this post, but I decided to share it anyway so people can see some photos without clicking the links. Thanks to him for producing all of these photos during his multiple trips:

African Lion

African Wild Dog

Snow Leopard (one half of enclosure)

Grizzly Bear

Jaguar

Ocelot

North American River Otter

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Hopefully we'll hear clarification one way or another on the matter before the match ends - which is why I've tagged markmeier into the discussion - and if off-exhibit areas which contain animals are fair play, it might be worth highlighting the other (certainly better) exhibits which have recently gone off-display, such as the outdoor tiger exhibits.

It seems a bit silly to me to not count off-exhibit areas considering they are most definitely part of the zoo If we stop counting off-exhibit area, we are going to cut out huge portions of many zoos' collections.

~Thylo

 

[Coelacanth18]

How big is that enclosure? Like with the tiger, the photos provided don't actually show much of enclosure. Yeah it's very lush and looks good but the photos, to me, look like they only show the very front portion. I'm not saying it's bad, I don't know, but the photo isn't very clear to me is all I'm saying.

Not sure if my additional photos clarify at all, but from all the photos I've looked at (haven't seen it in person) with vastly different perspectives and viewpoints suggests to me that the jaguar enclosure is a decent size - certainly larger than other jaguar habitats I've seen that are essentially just large cages. What matters more and stands out to me more is the design: heavily planted for shade/privacy/immersion, multi-leveled, big pool for swimming, ample climbing opportunities, and multiple viewing perspectives for visitors.

After looking at photos, I liked more of Tierpark's enclosures than I initially thought I would when they were just being described; however, I feel pretty strongly that as a whole they don't measure up to the exhibit quality at Woodland Park. Neither zoo has a plethora of bad exhibits, but Berlin's seem average and functional while those at WPZ seem better designed: more tailored, more immersive, and more creative. That combined with WPZ's conservation efforts make this an easy choice for me: 2-1 in favor of Woodland Park.

 

[Coelacanth18]

Just realized nobody had posted about Woodland Park's conservation efforts (or maybe I accidentally skipped over it). Their relevant projects include working with:

- River otters in western Washington
- Urban carnivores in Seattle
- Carnivores generally in the Pacific Northwest region (incl. black bears, cougars, wolves)
- Malayan Tiger Project
- Snow Leopard Trust
- Ruaha Carnivore Project (a national park in Tanzania)
- MYCAT: Citizen Action for Tigers (in Malaysia)
- Red Panda Network
- Wildlife SOS in India (managing human-sloth bear conflict)

Here is their conservation page link: Saving Wildlife - Woodland Park Zoo Seattle WA

 

[TZDugong]

The snow leopard exhibit is average, and the red panda exhibit is as well from the photo

The Snow Leopard exhibit is well above average imo, that photo shows only half the enclosure, it provides height for the cats as well as privacy and has mature trees in the enclosure. The Panda one I'd also consider above average, not amazing but better than most.

 

[twilighter]

Hopefully we'll hear clarification one way or another on the matter before the match ends - which is why I've tagged markmeier into the discussion - and if off-exhibit areas which contain animals are fair play, it might be worth highlighting the other (certainly better) exhibits which have recently gone off-display, such as the outdoor tiger exhibits.

If you mean, the two tiger exhibits in front of ABH main entrance, they are currently on display and hosting mother with 4 cubs Sumatran tigers and Amur tigers.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

If you mean, the two tiger exhibits in front of ABH main entrance, they are currently on display and hosting mother with 4 cubs Sumatran tigers and Amur tigers.

I believe that they went off-display this week, however.

 

[snowleopard]

A few more WPZ carnivore exhibits (as I practice adding photos into a thread):

Small-clawed Otter exhibit:

Small-clawed Otter exhibit:

Malayan Tiger exhibit (training wall):

Malayan Tiger exhibit:

Grizzly Bear exhibit:

Grizzly Bear exhibit:

Jaguar Cove:

Jaguar extremely high in the canopy (a very different viewpoint):

 

[amur leopard]

I don't like the look of the Malayan tiger enclosure... especially it is was new in 2015...

 

[Coelacanth18]

I don't like the look of the Malayan tiger enclosure... especially it is was new in 2015...

Looks alright to me. I can't see many details regarding size or a pool, but it has plenty of undergrowth plantings in it at least. And comparatively, I think it looks a lot better than the rocky grotto tigers have at Tierpark.