ZooChat Cup Group G: Taronga vs Woodland Park

Taronga vs Woodland Park: Birds

  • Taronga 3-0 Woodland Park

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Taronga 2-1 Woodland Park

    Votes: 17 73.9%

  • Woodland Park 2-1 Taronga

    Votes: 6 26.1%

  • Woodland Park 3-0 Taronga

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .
C

CGSwans

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
Woodland Park. Taronga. Birds. These are probably two of the least well known zoos in the Cup, so I will do some more tags after I wake up in the morning. We’re going to need people like @snowleopard and @Najade to get involved and help people make up their minds on this one.

A little refresher on the rules:
  • You have three votes to award: you can award all three votes to one zoo, if you think it’s vastly superior in the given category, but if you think it’s closer than that then award two votes to the stronger zoo and one to the weaker zoo.
  • Stick to the topic: each match has one category and you need to confine your decision-making and advocacy strictly to that category.
  • No strategic voting. Vote for the zoo you honestly think deserves to win, not simply the one you like best. Doing that only breaks the game.
  • The point of this game is to stoke debate. Argue your case for why you are voting the way you are, and why others should too. At the same time, keep an open mind and be willing to change your vote in response to a good argument.
  • Votes are public and that means you’re free to ask people to explain why they are voting a certain way. But do it respectfully.
  • This game is supposed to be fun. Play nice.
 
I know Woodland Park Zoo very well as I consistently visit 3 times each year. One of the highlights is the Steller's Sea Eagle aviary in the Northern Trail area. It's a very nicely landscaped exhibit (although easily half the size of the one in Rotterdam) and there are a couple of owl aviaries nearby. Elsewhere can be found Emus, flamingos, a few budgies, Honey-eaters and Kookburras, a mixed-species aviary in the Banyan Wilds zone, a small aviary on the African Savanna loop and a few smallish aviaries scattered around the zoo. The award-winning Humboldt Penguin exhibit is world-class and arguably the best outdoor penguin exhibit in North America, and the Tropical Rainforest building has many colourful birds (circa 20 species on-show) and even Andean Cock-of-the-Rocks. The Conservation Aviaries are a series of lushly-planted exhibits for a long list of birds, and nearby are at least 3 crane species and a walk-through waterfowl aviary. Looking at the zoo's map, the bottom left-hand corner has a large number of bird species.

I visited Taronga Zoo in 2007 and there have been many changes since then and so hopefully an Aussie zoo nerd can elaborate on the bird collection. Looking at the zoo's map, the Asian zone has a Wetland Aviary and a nice walk-through Palm Aviary. There is a bird show that is in a more formal setting in comparison to Woodland Park's low-key raptor show. There are a series of aviaries labeled as Bush Birds across from the Koalas plus penguins and pelicans down by the pinniped pools. The Australian zone has Emus, Cassowaries, more pelicans and a large Australian Rainforest Aviary. There are various other aviaries dotted around the grounds, with Lyrebirds and a long list of species that are not found outside of Australia.

Woodland Park has a number of very impressive bird exhibits (penguins, sea eagles and various breeding cranes being the highlights) but I once read that Taronga has well over 100 bird species and many species that are found nowhere else outside of Oz.

My vote is 2-1 Taronga Zoo

 
Let's get some discussion going on this, shall we? ;)

snowleopard said:
Woodland Park has a number of very impressive bird exhibits (penguins, sea eagles and various breeding cranes being the highlights) but I once read that Taronga has well over 100 bird species and many species that are found nowhere else outside of Oz.

My vote is 2-1 Taronga Zoo
Click to expand...

According to this 2019 species list for Woodland Park (credit due to @Anteaterman), Woodland Park may not be far off in numbers. See below:

Ostrich
Helmeted Guineafowl
Egyptian Goose
Hottentot Teal
White-Faced Whistling Duck
Spur-winged Lapwing
Speckled Mousebird
Golden-Breasted Starling
Taveta Golden Weaver
White-Headed Buffalo Weaver
Maccoa Duck
Snowy-Crowned Robin-Chat
Violet Turaco
Blue-Winged Goose
Chinese Hwamei
Oriental Magpie-Robin
Cabot's Tragopan
Great Blue Turaco
Common Trumpeter
Lady Ross' Turaco
Victoria Crowned Pigeon
Bali Mynah (Off Exhibit)
Palawan Peacock Pheasant (Off Exhibit)
White-Crested Laughing Thrush
Malay Great Argus
Edward's Pheasant
Green Woodhoopoe
Eastern Crested Guineafowl
Vulturine Guineafowl
Blue-Billed Curassow
Bornean Crested Fireback
Blue Magpie
Temminck's Tragopan
Tawny Frogmouth
Nicobar Pigeon
Green-Naped Pheasant Pigeon
Red-Crowned Crane
Swan Goose
Barnacle Goose
Trumpeter Swan
Emperor Goose
Red-Breasted Goose
Smew
White-Headed Duck
Mandarin Duck
Marbled Teal
Northern Shoveler
Pacific Eider
Mandarin Duck
Eurasian Wigeon
Falcated Duck
Green-Winged Teal
Baer's Pochard
Baikal Teal
Bufflehead
Scaly-Sided Merganser
White-Naped Crane
Chilean Flamingo
Puna Teal
Chiloe Wigeon
Southern Screamer
Humboldt Penguin
Sunbittern
Red-Crested Cardinal
Silver-Beaked Tanager
Turquoise Tanager
Blue-Grey Tanager
Red-Crested Finch
Green Aracari
Toco Toucan
Croaking Ground Dove
Paradise Tanager
Red-Capped Cardinal
Golden-Bellied Grosbeak
Yellow-Rumped Cacique
Andean Cock-of-the-Rock
Crested Oropendola
Bananaquit
Rufous-Collared Sparrow
Chaco Chachalaca
Spangled Cotinga
White-Rumped Shama Thrush
Azure-Winged Magpie
Bar-Headed Goose
Demoiselle Crane
Kea
Budgerigar
Cockatiel
Eastern Rosella
Princess Parrot
Kakariki (Red-Fronted Parakeet)
Wonga Pigeon
Laughing Kookaburra
Blue-Faced Honeyeater
Masked Lapwing (No Signage)
Great Gray Owl
Snowy Owl
Steller's Sea Eagle

I tried to cut out any duplicates; if I was successful, that should be 98 bird species for Woodland Park - an impressive number for even a large American zoo. Not only that, but Woodland Park seems to have a large and diverse collection from multiple continents: Africa, Asia, Australia, and the Americas. Anyone can correct me if I have misinterpreted, but aren't Australian zoos somewhat challenged by the import situation when it comes to birds from foreign countries?

Woodland Park also has a number of very choice species: not just Steller's sea eagle and cock-of-the-rock, but also Snowy Owl, Bananaquit, Great Blue Turaco (+2 other species), 3 species of guineafowl, green woodhoopoe, robin-chat, multiple species of magpie, a huge waterfowl collection, 3 species of crane, 2 species of tragopan, 2 species of weavers, 2 species of cardinal, 4 species of tanager, Chinese hwamei, blue-billed curassow... I could go on, but hopefully the point has been made :p

Here are some exhibits from Woodland Park to give perspective on that category. All have been provided by @snowleopard, except for the Humboldt penguin photo which came from @Arizona Docent:

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Rainforest Aviary

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Tropical Rainforest building exhibit (2014, 4 species)

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Australian Aviary

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Crane exhibit

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One of the Conservation aviaries

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Steller's Sea Eagle aviary

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Humboldt penguin exhibit (chosen for cool snow backdrop, couldn't find a photo that showed even the majority of the enclosure)

As for conservation, many on this site may be more familiar with Woodland Park's conservation work than its species or exhibits. Birds is no different a story. The zoo works with native raptors in eastern Washington, cranes in the Amur River Basin, Humboldt penguins in Peru, tracking and surveys of Steller's sea eagles, Asian songbird conservation in Bali, and red-breasted goose conservation in Bulgaria.

TL;DR: around 100 species representing many different taxonomic groups and geographic regions, many very good indoor exhibits and outdoor enclosures that mesh well with the zoo's natural biome, and a wide range of bird-related conservation programs. For now, I will be voting 3-0 for Woodland Park. That being said, not much has been posted for Taronga yet; if others step up and make convincing arguments, I will adjust my vote accordingly.
 
snowleopard said:
How accurate is this decade-old list from Taronga Zoo? Is it relevant or a total waste of time to analyze? It lists 160 bird species:

List of Animals at Taronga Zoo, Sydney
Click to expand...

I haven’t visited Sydney in about 3 years (or maybe even 4, I’m not certain), and I don’t make a habit of compiling species lists. But the number of species is almost certainly down considerably since then. They’ve removed some of the elderly planted aviaries that were primarily used for parrots, at the very least, the Andean condors are gone and I don’t think they have a Fiordland penguin anymore.

A paucity of exotic birds is an unfortunate reality for Australian zoos for biosecurity reasons. My home zoo, Melbourne, is almost completely devoid of exotics aside from a small collection of parrots (and an elderly curassow). Taronga still has one walk-through aviary devoted to Asian birds, but aside from that they’re pretty much all natives from my recollection.

The question is how much you want to penalise them for something that’s not really in their control (and I say that *without* intending to suggest doing so is against the rules - it’s up to you).

With regards to species they *do* have ready access to, Taronga does pretty well by both Australian and global standards. The natives collection they have remains diverse, with lots of interesting habitat aviaries themed around Sydney-region environments, most notably the wonderful Creatures of the Wollemi, which I think holds up as one of the best walk-through aviaries I’ve seen.

I’m not sure as I’d go so far as to say birds is a noted ‘strength’ of Taronga, as it is for Adelaide. But in the context of major Australian zoos they’ve left Melbourne in their dust.
 
CGSwans said:
A paucity of exotic birds is an unfortunate reality for Australian zoos for biosecurity reasons [...] The question is how much you want to penalise them for something that’s not really in their control (and I say that *without* intending to suggest doing so is against the rules - it’s up to you).
Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought about that after posting it because I feel like I've made contradictory arguments in that regard before (for example, pointing out that San Diego's favorable climate allows it advantages for exhibits and scenery that other zoos don't have). Nevertheless, I can't see myself giving credit to Taronga for geographic diversity on a "it would if it could" basis. Maybe Taronga would have a much better collection were it not for Australia's avian import restrictions, but the fact is that those restrictions exist and it affects Taronga negatively here.

CGSwans said:
The natives collection they have remains diverse, with lots of interesting habitat aviaries themed around Sydney-region environments, most notably the wonderful Creatures of the Wollemi, which I think holds up as one of the best walk-through aviaries I’ve seen.
Click to expand...

I decided to post some exhibit photos for Taronga as well. It seems like they do very well in this category as you stated: large, well-planted walk-through aviaries appear to be a strong suit for them especially. The penguins also seem to have good digs, although considering Woodland Park's exhibit I'm not sure how much weight it holds there.

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Creatures of the Wollemi aviary

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Rainforest aviary

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Palm aviary (not sure if a different aviary than the one above?)

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Pelicans

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Penguins (is this the same enclosure as below?)

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Underwater viewing of penguins

PC: @Baldur and @Chlidonias for the two penguin photos respectively, @Jabiru96 for the rest.

I might be tempted to vote 2-1 Woodland Park at this point, but I'm still not convinced Taronga deserves a win for birds.
 
I'm going to vote Taronga so far because the exhibits showed in the gallery impress me more than the ones at Woodland Park. It is true that not every bird exhibit is represented for either zoo but just the examples shown above make me sway my vote for Taronga as of now.

We however do not have as much info (barring the excellent posts by @Coelacanth18 , @snowleopard and @CGSwans ) as we do with other zoos that compete in this game (which is to be expected, since both are some of the lesser-known ones in the cup) and especially I do not know how much species Taronga hold as of 2019 so the collection gap at either zoo could possibly (though I prefer judging zoos on their exhibits, not their collections) be a decisive factor.
 
I really don't know how to vote here. From the photos provided it seems that, while Woodland Park has some great aviaries, Taronga has even better outdoor aviaries and better penguin enclosures. WPZ has a much more diverse species list, whereas Taronga seems to be mainly limited to Australasian birds. What are the two zoos conservation projects like? Does Taronga still keep (breed?) Regent Honeyeater?

For now I am tempted to vote 2-1 Taronga.

~Thylo
 
My vote has gone 2-1 for Taronga because of the necessary focus on Australasian birds, to be honest :P
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Does Taronga still keep (breed?) Regent Honeyeater?
Click to expand...

Based on this information (Regent Honeyeater Study | Taronga Conservation Society Australia) it seems that Tarona is still involved in breeding for release and other research with Regent Honeyeaters. Additionally they do conservation work with Little Blue Penguins and urban management research for Australian brush-turkeys. Overall, I think most zoos will have a hard time one-upping WPZ on conservation efforts and this match seems no different to me, although Taronga is certainly not lacking for it. Also, again, worth mentioning that WPZ does a lot of conservation work for birds all over the globe, while Taronga's efforts seem to be focused exclusively in Australia; make of that what you will.

Zoo Tycooner FR said:
especially I do not know how much species Taronga hold as of 2019 so the collection gap at either zoo could possibly (though I prefer judging zoos on their exhibits, not their collections) be a decisive factor.
Click to expand...

Judging by the post from @CGSwans about Taronga losing many of its species in the past few years, I think the collection gap is probably not that large between the two. Taronga may still have well over a hundred species, but with WPZ also having ~100 species it's not like either zoo blows the other out of the water. It is not, for instance, like SDZSP going into a primate match against Berlin with two species :p

TeaLovingDave said:
My vote has gone 2-1 for Taronga because of the necessary focus on Australasian birds, to be honest :p
Click to expand...

To each their own. Personally, I think if I lived in Sydney for a long time and didn't get to travel much I would want for some more geographic diversity in Taronga's collection than flamingos and a few parrots :p
 
Coelacanth18 said:
Judging by the post from @CGSwans about Taronga losing many of its species in the past few years, I think the collection gap is probably not that large between the two. Taronga may still have well over a hundred species, but with WPZ also having ~100 species it's not like either zoo blows the other out of the water. It is not, for instance, like SDZSP going into a primate match against Berlin with two species :p
Click to expand...

Hence why I mentioned at either zoo, it's been nearly 10 years since we've had a total species list of what Taronga holds so who knows how many species they have now (I totally agree that it will probably be quite close but you never know!). ;)
 
Coelacanth18 said:
while Taronga's efforts seem to be focused exclusively in Australia; make of that what you will.
Click to expand...

Imo that is a good thing, because I think that many zoos seem to prioritize megafauna over native species, and I think this results in the underrepresentation of native (especially European species) in zoos...
 
Coelacanth18 said:
To each their own. Personally, I think if I lived in Sydney for a long time and didn't get to travel much I would want for some more geographic diversity in Taronga's collection than flamingos and a few parrots :p
Click to expand...

Ah, but I don't live in Sydney ;) and as mentioned by other posters, it's always nice to see high representation of native fauna in a collection.
 
amur leopard said:
Imo that is a good thing, because I think that many zoos seem to prioritize megafauna over native species, and I think this results in the underrepresentation of native (especially European species) in zoos...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment, especially on the American side. I've looked at a lot of conservation work by zoos as part of these competitions, and I've yet to see one that doesn't have a local conservation component. I certainly don't think it's bad that Taronga works on many Australian conservation projects, but it's worth noting that Woodland Park does a lot of native conservation and still provides much funding and assistance to species in countries where local resources are not enough. As for what species zoos choose to hold, I think a balance between the native and the foreign is ideal; in many species Taronga hits that mark quite well, but with birds I don't see that being the case.

TeaLovingDave said:
as mentioned by other posters, it's always nice to see high representation of native fauna in a collection.
Click to expand...

Yes, and if that's a selling point then Taronga does a better job at this than Woodland Park - although I would say that WPZ is not unusual in having a low number of native birds; most American zoos I've been to are the same way. As it stands, I still think that WPZ's breadth is a match for Taronga's depth, and while I like the look of these walk-through aviaries at Taronga it seems to me like the zoos are somewhat evenly matched here as well.

I've walked back to a 2-1 vote as I am no longer convinced that either zoo should get a 3-0 vote, but for me Woodland Park still holds an edge in conservation and collection (considering multiple factors, not just species count), while I concede that Taronga probably has the edge on exhibits.
 
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