ZooChat Cup Match #45: Burgers (6) vs Amneville

[pipaluk]

By the way I have no bias here, I've not been to Amneville, so I'm not that bothered! If Tierpark Berlin or Whipsnade was losing to Burgers on ungulates, I WOULD care!!

 

[lintworm]

By the way I have no bias here, I've not been to Amneville, so I'm not that bothered! If Tierpark Berlin or Whipsnade was losing to Burgers on ungulates, I WOULD care!!

When that would be the matchup, Burgers' would not win in any case even with extra manatees.

 

[Mr. Zootycoon]

This is factually incorrect in the case of primates

In that case, could you please present us the facts to support this. Because if that is the case I will change my vote.

And before anyone again gets riled up, Burgers is the better zoo (and i am really constraining myself hard to argue for a zoo that is advertising this tiger desaster) but not in this category.

That, it appears, is a matter of opinion. It does make for a much more interesting discussion when people have different opinions.

 

[Vision]

This is factually incorrect in the case of primates

I'd love to see this argumented more, with pictures or more details comparing enclosures and/or husbandry. Perhaps part of the reason Amneville is losing is because people don't know what it's like, and people that do aren't making enough of a case supporting the zoo?

The gorillas have been mentioned multiple times, but what about the other species? How does Amneville's siamang enclosure compare to Burgers'?

 

[Hvedekorn]

I haven't been to either, but I gotta be honest here - even though Burgers is much higher on my wishlist than Amneville, if I were to visit one of these two zoos with the sole purpose of seeing primates, I'd choose Amneville. Then again I haven't visited that many zoos yet, so I'm probably a bit more of a species-hunter than those who hundreds of zoos under their belt - as long as a huge collection doesn't compromise with the exhibit quality. I'd rather visit a zoo with 10 species in good exhibits than a zoo with 1 species in a state-of-the-art exhibit. (Unless it was one extremely rare species vs. 10 run-of-the-mill species)

Since I haven't visited either, I can't help but share a little bit of Pipaluk's feeling that there might be a slight Burgers bias. I'm in no doubt that Burgers would win no matter what because of its superior exhibits and husbandry, but let's imagine a parallel universe where Burgers only had its primate exhibits and nothing else. No Bush, no Desert, no Mangrove, no Safari etc. Would Burgers still get the same amount of votes?

Which leads me to... Are we supposed to vote for the primate exhibits/collections/husbandry in a vacuum? What I mean is, can you let the Rimba primate exhibits of Burgers decide your vote because you love the Rimba zone in general? Or do you have to ignore the non-primate parts of Rimba completely and imagine that Rimba only contained the primate exhibits and nothing else?

 

[TZDugong]

Perhaps part of the reason Amneville is losing is because people don't know what it's like

Yes, this is probably one of the major reasons why Amneville is losing.

An area that Burgers has a huge advantage over Amneville is in the zoochat photo gallery. I mean let's face it, most of the people voting on this poll have not visited both of these collections (I haven't visited either one), and thus they need to find information on the zoos. While zootierliste is a great resource in terms of the species on display, there is no better resource for the actual animal exhibits than the Zoochat gallery. Burgers has a huge amount of photos in the gallery (93 pages in total), and while a lot of photos are animal portraits, with a bit of searching you can find many photos of the primate exhibits. Amneville on the other hand, has only 12 pages of photos, so there are simply less photographs of the primate enclosures (although there are a few) than there are at Burgers. Is this a deciding factor? Probably not, but I bet it does help Burgers.

 

[FunkyGibbon]

Burgers is a contender for best zoo in Europe. Amneville is not. It shouldn't be controversial that Burgers is doing well in this competition.
To @Hvedekorn's point, Burgers abhors a vacuum. What I mean is that the whole essence of Burger's approach (and I haven't visited), is to present animals in ecosystems and in context. Their holistic approach to exhibitry demands a holistic approach to appraisement. When a zoo is more than the sum of its parts, it's reasonable to allow those parts to bleed into each other a little bit, even in a competition based around a focus on specific parts.
There may well be Burgers homers out there who will vote for 'their' zoo no matter what, but I don't think we've seen a matchup where Burgers wasn't in the fight, so there isn't really the evidence to suggest that.
Incidentally, although I've gone with Burgers in this round, it has caused me to put Amneville a little higher on my 'to do' list.

 

[SabineB]

I'd love to see this argumented more, with pictures or more details comparing enclosures and/or husbandry. Perhaps part of the reason Amneville is losing is because people don't know what it's like, and people that do aren't making enough of a case supporting the zoo?

The gorillas have been mentioned multiple times, but what about the other species? How does Amneville's siamang enclosure compare to Burgers'?

I hope I can put this together correctly

here is zoochat material to check out the siamang & orang utan set up

this is a different angle of the aforeseen gorilla enclosure

This is the third outdoor enclosure

inside to outside view

outside to inside view

and this is the middle enclosure

backdrop image of middle enclosure

this is one gorilla indoor enclosure this is another indoor enclosure

this is the capuchin enclosure

spider monkeys enclosure

gibbon enclosure

I hope this helps.

 

[agnmeln]

This was an excellent match!