ZooChat Cup Match #55: Burgers (6) vs Pairi Daiza

Carnivores

  • Total voters
    34
  • Poll closed .
C

CGSwans

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
A day late, due to having to resolve issues of Middle East peace, but here we are. Burgers has had two tough fights to get here - a two vote battle royale with Wroclaw on ectotherms and a somewhat easier, but still much debated 23-11 win over Amneville on primates. Pairi Daiza has had a comfortable run up to now - a 17-0 squash against Rome on large carnivores and a 15-9 win over Moscow on ungulates. Maybe playing Burgers on carnivores will be a good measure of its true quality.

Tomorrow: Rotterdam vs Paris Vincennes.
 
Well easy win for Burgers' here. Not a huge, but a varied collection of Carnivores with two of the biggest rarities in the European zoo world: Ringtail and Ringed seal. The enclosures go from acceptable (Seals) to very good (like the big cats, Coati, Meerkat and Sun bears), with most enclosures being good or better. Pairi Daiza is basically disqualifying itself by keeping new species again and again in the tiny prison next to the lion enclosure, and in general bringing new species in without having adequate space, Giant otter... Many enclosures are either overthemed (Tigers....) or quite boring (Lions....).
 
Yeah, I'm a few years out of date on Pairi Daiza's myriad constructions but I remember the carnivore exhibits being among the weakest (in particular that 'temporary' enclosure for big cats). If I think through the exhibits there I particularly enjoyed not a one was for carnivores, whereas Burgers scarcely puts a foot wrong with them. I think Pairi Daiza was very lucky not get a more modern zoo on the very similar category previously.

No controversy here for me.
 
Although I have not visited Pairi Daiza, I think this is an easy choice - there are some excellent carnivore exhibits at Burger's both in terms of exhibit design and species diversity, and the latter really *is* excellent.
 
Arnhem
Bobcat,Sumatran tiger, Sri Lankan leopard
Golden jackal
Sun bear (Helarctos malayanus malayanus beccari)
Ringed seal (including Arctic)
Striped skunk
Ringtail, ring-tailed coati

Pairi Daiza
Spotted hyena
Dwarf and yellow mongooses
Indochinese clouded leopard, snow leopard, tiger, African and Javan leopards
Raccoon dog
Giant panda, Asiatic black bear
Giant otter
Cape fur seal
Eastern Atlantic harbour seal
Northern raccoon
Nepalese red panda

Arnhem has a skunk, but Pairi Daiza has a hyena, an eared seal and a red panda

Pairi Daiza has more bears, mongooses and cats, while Arnhem has more procyonids including the rarely seen ringtail – one of the species my friend pointed out as an unusual zoo species.

With a rather heavy heart, I’m voting for Pairi Daiza.
 
Another of the very few I can make an experienced assessment of and Pairi Daiza wins hand down for me.
Although the Tigers and Sun Bears at Arnhem have excellent views and photo opportunities, I was not impressed with the single viewing huts (as I remember) for the Cheetahs and Lions; big enclosures, but no more exciting than Pairi Daiza's which have much better viewing, from various perspectives. Arnhem's Leopard enclosure is similar in size to PD's Jaguar, but more interesting, but with it, more frustrating with it's dark environment.
My visit to Burgers was on a busy day and I didn't like how crowded it was in the desert zone (or whatever it is) for the Ringtail and Bobcat which I honestly can't remember seeing.
Pairi Daiza isn't perfect, but we've all seen worse enclosure than those they currently have for the Clouded Leopard and Giant Otters. Together with the above, my decision is helped by the number of species (haven't mentioned the rather nice Giant Panda and decent enough Andean Bear homes (EDIT: HOW COULD I FORGET THE RED PANDAS TOO?!).
 
Last edited:
Got to be Burgers’ for me. It meets my primary carnivore need, and does so in one of my favourite European exhibits.
 
A very difficult one for me : I've worked 2 years at Pairi Daiza ( when it was still mainly a birdpark ) and Burgers is one of my all-time favorites but in this case I would say Pairi Daiza, and then esp. because of the ( sub )species they have ( Giant panda, Giant otter and Javan leopard ).
 
littleRedPanda said:
@lintworm What is boring about PD's lions enclosure and very good about Burgers' (assuming you are including that)?
Click to expand...

The Lion enclosure in PD is relatively small and very bare, yes the viewing is better, but in terms of size it is so much smaller than compared to Burgers'. The same goes for the Hyena enclosure next to it, also very simple (and I don't know how much both species like to be so close and visible to each other....
 
littleRedPanda said:
Another of the very few I can make an experienced assessment of and Pairi Daiza wins hand down for me.
Although the Tigers and Sun Bears at Arnhem have excellent views and photo opportunities, I was not impressed with the single viewing huts (as I remember) for the Cheetahs and Lions; big enclosures, but no more exciting than Pairi Daiza's which have much better viewing, from various perspectives. Arnhem's Leopard enclosure is similar in size to PD's Jaguar, but more interesting, but with it, more frustrating with it's dark environment.
My visit to Burgers was on a busy day and I didn't like how crowded it was in the desert zone (or whatever it is) for the Ringtail and Bobcat which I honestly can't remember seeing.
Pairi Daiza isn't perfect, but we've all seen worse enclosure than those they currently have for the Clouded Leopard and Giant Otters. Together with the above, my decision is helped by the number of species (haven't mentioned the rather nice Giant Panda and decent enough Andean Bear homes (EDIT: HOW COULD I FORGET THE RED PANDAS TOO?!).
Click to expand...

Jaguar? Andean bear? Neither species is kept by PD...do you mean African leopard and Asiatic black bear?

It should be noted that the red panda enclosure has awfully cramped viewing, the Javan leopard male recently acquired lives in the cage where the cloudies were before, and that Burgers’ large carnivore enclosures DESTROY PD’s in size and enrichment.

Now yes, their bear enclosures aren’t half bad, especially the panda enclosure, but there is no way I am being convinced that PD’s enclosures trump those at Burgers’ for the species the two zoos both keep.

Lions? Burgers’
Cheetahs? Burgers’
Tigers? EASILY Burgers’
Leopards? (as in P.pardus, not including the snow or clouded) Burgers’
Bears? Even then, probably still Burgers’

The only area that may stand a chance of beating Burgers’ is the area of the lake that the seals are allowed access to at PD, though even then I wouldn’t say they’re any good.

It should also be noted that, I may be a man that can be easily swayed by a rarity or two, but PD’s “gotta catch em all” ethos can only get them so far when up against a zoo that does so much with so little.

Sorry Pairi Daiza. End of the line as far as I’m concerned.
 
ShonenJake13 said:
It should be noted that the red panda enclosure has awfully cramped viewing, the Javan leopard male recently acquired lives in the cage where the cloudies were before
Click to expand...
There is another spacious Red Panda exhibit, near the red cheeked gibbons. I actually forgot about the smaller one higher up and wondered what you meant about that cramped one.
Where are the cloudies now then?

Okay, I see where the Cloudies are on the new map, although it has the Javan Leopard in the same enclosure as African before.
 
Last edited:
ShonenJake13 said:
Now yes, their bear enclosures aren’t half bad, especially the panda enclosure, but there is no way I am being convinced that PD’s enclosures trump those at Burgers’ for the species the two zoos both keep.
Click to expand...

I’m really struggling to get a feel for the bear enclosures from the photographs posted in the gallery. Personally speaking though, I think Burgers’ bear enclosure would take a lot of beating. It ticks almost every box of what I consider to be an excellent bear enclosure, both for living in from the bears’ perspective and for viewing as a visitor. It’s large, expansive and spacious, it’s green, it offers plenty of climbing opportunities, it has depth and therefore offers plenty of space to get away from the public or the other bears if needed, it has access to a body of water should the bears want to take a dip, it has hammocks and baskets for nesting, it offers indoor viewing, and possibly nicest of all, it’s a mixed species exhibit with binturong which is a real plus for me. The only thing I could suggest to add to improve it would be a couple of different viewing angles such as the enclosures at Jihlava and Colchester, where the bears can be viewed from the top or from the bottom. But I guess as the Burgers’ enclosure isn’t hilly like these two, it’s not actually needed. It’s definitely one of my favourite European sun bear enclosures so far. Only Jihlava and Colchester beat it for me.
 
Difficult one for me because Burgers' is my favorite European zoo (and the most visited one) while Pairi Daiza has a better collection. But many of the new enclosures are rather disappointing given the amount of sources & space they have: bad tiger and leopard enclosures, moderate lion and hyena ones. Haven't seen yet the snow leopard asiatic black bear giant panda enclosures. But of course none of that is dramatically bad, so my vote goes to PD, with a little less enthousiam.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top