ZooChat Cup Season 2 - North America

Chlidonias said:
it's a stupid name which can't be said or written without sounding like an utter plonker.
Click to expand...
I’d always thought that the excellent word “plonker” - which gets just the right level of condemnation into it (much milder than things that would be censored by Zoochat; a little stronger than “wally”; a bit nicer than “arse”) - was very much a British thing. Is it in use in New Zealand as well?
 
sooty mangabey said:
I’d always thought that the excellent word “plonker” - which gets just the right level of condemnation into it (much milder than things that would be censored by Zoochat; a little stronger than “wally”; a bit nicer than “arse”) - was very much a British thing. Is it in use in New Zealand as well?
Click to expand...
New Zealand's pretty British. And there's a heaping dose of Scottish and a smidgeon of Welsh, but otherwise very British. Not at all like Australia, which is just full of plonkers.
 
Chlidonias said:
New Zealand's pretty British. And there's a heaping dose of Scottish and a smidgeon of Welsh, but otherwise very British. Not at all like Australia, which is just full of plonkers.
Click to expand...

Which also, as it happens, is full of Kiwis. Coincidence?
 
jayjds2 said:
Well, yeah. But it’s what they call themselves and we should respect that. Just like pachyderm pro is called that, even though when he joined we all quickly determined that he wasn’t a pro in the slightest, especially since “pachyderm” isn’t exactly a valid term anymore. Regardless, we call him his name (and thankfully, he has improved, if only marginally :p) and I think the same should apply to SDZSP.
Click to expand...

You say that, but pretty much everyone still calls South Lakes Wild Animal Park by that name, even though David Gill and his successors have gone through a number of replacement names in an attempt to escape the reputation :P

Chlidonias said:
I knew what you meant, but do you ever hear people saying "I'm going to ZSL London Zoo today"? No, because it's a stupid name which can't be said or written without sounding like an utter plonker.

Or if you said "I saw a duckling at Africa Alive!" the other person would say "why is that so exciting?" and you'd have to answer "no, no, the name of the place has a stupid exclamation mark after it."

The point is, marketing people are idiots.
Click to expand...

Other examples include the fact that everyone kept calling Marwell Zoo and Jersey Zoo by those names, even during the period of time when the two collections in question went by the names Marwell Wildlife and Durrell Wildlife Park respectively.
 
I like this idea, a lot, but here are some things that should be fixed (in my opinion).

First off, I really don't think the Arizona-Sonoran Desert museum should be on the list of 32 zoos. Is it one of the best 32 zoos in North America? Definitely, but I find its collection a bit small compared to the other behemoths. For example, I'm fairly certain that ASDM has no species of primates, correct? What happens if primates get drawn, ASDM automatically loses? I would replace it with a zoo like Toronto (yes @pachyderm pro Canadian zoos don't bite;)) that while weaker in overall quality then ASDM, has a higher level of diversity.

Secondly, I would like it if Reptiles and Amphibians and Fish and Inverts be in one category, like in @CGSwans competition. I feel that matchups in the Fish and Inverts category could be boring, as many zoos simply lack these species. Also, I feel as if you should split up large Carnivores and Small mammals, into Carnivores and Other Mammals (just like in the European competition). That way we can avoid much of the discussion in the early rounds about what defines a small carnivore.

Other than that, this sounds like a great competition, and I am eager to take part in it.
 
I agree with @TZDugong specialist zoos should not be included as they would be unfair against certain categories. Say if I made a UK ZooChat Cup, I would probably be reluctant to include Highland Wildlife Park or Monkey World due to their niche.
 
I have a question, why are the categories randomly drawn? Is there a reason why a topic can't be assigned per round? Like round one is hoof stock, round two is small carnivores, etc.

And as a personal preference, I wouldn't be against the Fresno zoo being replaced with The Living Desert in Palm Desert

I can't wait to participate...
 
BigNate said:
I have a question, why are the categories randomly drawn? Is there a reason why a topic can't be assigned per round? Like round one is hoof stock, round two is small carnivores, etc.
Click to expand...

Going by the European competition, yes they are. I like the randomized format, because it's interesting to see a weaker zoo beat a more well-known zoo because it got the right category.

With your idea, certain zoos like the San Diego Zoo Safari Park (that's for you @jayjds2 :p) would be practically guaranteed to move on, as they're extremely diverse in hoofstock.

BigNate said:
And as a personal preference, I wouldn't be against the Fresno zoo being replaced with The Living Desert in Palm Desert
Click to expand...

While I personally adore the Living Desert zoo, I think it falls into the category of not diverse enough (again, no primates). It would go up against the best of them in Carnivores and hoofstck however!
 
I think the categories are fine as is. Mammals is split into four categories, but you suggest grouping just as many highly diverse types of animals. Yes, they are underrepresented, but those zoos which maintain strong exhibits for them deserve to be rewarded.

I do agree ASDM should not compete considering it does not hold any primates. For replacement, may I suggest Jacksonville? I am surprised it was not chosen initially. Personally, I have it in my top 15 US zoos I’ve visited.
 
Pre Game Updates

ASDM Cut, It's Replacement:
After doing some thinking, I have made the decision to cut ADSM from the competition. This is because of reasons already pointed out above, despite it being among one of Americas best zoos is lacks diversity in species. In it's place, I took a look at some of the final zoos that were cut from the competition. Candidates such as Jacksonville, Indianapolis, Living Desert, Audubon and Bush Gardens were looked at, but did not make the final cut. I have selected a replacement, and filling in for ADSM, will be the Phoenix zoo. And just a heads up, all categories will remain the same.

Seborgagate:
I also wanted to address the Seborgagate controversy that occurred in a recent match of season 1. In Match #52 Plackendael vs Zurich, a member by the name of Seborga cast his/her vote for Plackendael. The issue came about when this member joined the day of, had no postings before hand and didn't even give his/her explanation on why he/she voted the way he/she did. It seemingly was an account made just to rig the vote in favor of Plackendael. There was some debate about it, feel free to read it for the full story, but I just want to give my official statement on the matter. In Season 2 of the ZooChat Cup, any member can vote on thee zoo they want to win, including newly joined members. However, if a member who previously had no posts votes, the must provide an explanation why, or the vote will not be counted. Unique circumstances will be looked into by myself.
 
Last edited:
sooty mangabey said:
If the point of a thread like this is to inspire debate - and I think it is - here’s a comment which merits such debate!

San Diego may not be perfect, but, really - having visited nearly 400 zoos worldwide, including most of the renowned US collections, I would put it so far ahead of the rest as to make any “match” absolutely one sided. For me, all it lacks is a (physical) sense of its history - if it had a 1927 zebra house now converted into an armadillo exhibit, or an erstwhile aquarium in which could now be found a top notch restaurant, it really might be perfect. And even there, despite the absence of many charismatic old buildings, there is an eye on the past, through publications and signs and memorials, which puts others to shame....
Click to expand...

Obviously this is completely objective but I know many zoo nerds and non-animal nerds who just don't find San Diego being as great as everyone says. While it's improving constantly, I lot of their enclosures are still just subpar and on the smaller side. I personally refuse to think of a zoo that still puts small mammals in small cages, large carnivores in very small grottos, and hoofstock in rows of mock-rock and sandy paddocks as "perfect"..

For me the only really stand-out exhibits were the Scripps and Owens Aviaries, and the reptile complex. Everything else was just up to par with most other zoos or just fine imho. It's a great zoo and still one of the best, but I can already see it unjustly sweeping the competition in most of the categories just because it's the San Diego Zoo...

~Thylo
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Obviously this is completely objective but I know many zoo nerds and non-animal nerds who just don't find San Diego being as great as everyone says. While it's improving constantly, I lot of their enclosures are still just subpar and on the smaller side. I personally refuse to think of a zoo that still puts small mammals in small cages, large carnivores in very small grottos, and hoofstock in rows of mock-rock and sandy paddocks as "perfect"..

For me the only really stand-out exhibits were the Scripps and Owens Aviaries, and the reptile complex. Everything else was just up to par with most other zoos or just fine imho. It's a great zoo and still one of the best, but I can already see it unjustly sweeping the competition in most of the categories just because it's the San Diego Zoo...

~Thylo
Click to expand...

These are the sort of arguments that can sway results though: that's the great thing about the format. One dissident who can persuasively put their case *can* convince people to change their votes.
 
Really, no aquariums? Shedd, Monterey Bay, and Georgia are all great aquariums that would do well.
 
birdsandbats said:
Really, no aquariums? Shedd, Monterey Bay, and Georgia are all great aquariums that would do well.
Click to expand...

But, the problem with aquariums is that most of them only have fish a few reptiles and possibly some marine mammals. They aren't diverse enough and would lose all the categories except Fish and Inverts and possibly Reptiles and Amphibians.
 
CGSwans said:
Not in this format they wouldn't. They'd win one category and lose the other five by default.
Click to expand...

TZDugong said:
But, the problem with aquariums is that most of them only have fish a few reptiles and possibly some marine mammals. They aren't diverse enough and would lose all the categories except Fish and Inverts and possibly Reptiles and Amphibians.
Click to expand...
Shedd qualifies for all categories. I assume Monterey Bay and Georgia would probably too.
 
@birdsandbats : I'm sorry but according to someone I know (who worked there), Shedd has 7 species of mammals. If it ever got to draw primates for exemple, it would lose by default (do they keep primates? even if they do, they must only keep 1 or maximum 2 species). On another hand, it would be unfair to face another zoo with Shedd when it comes to ectotherms, simply because it is a specialist zoo that works nearly only on ectotherms. Same reasons for Monterey Bay and Georgia, as @CGSwans said qualifying doesn't mean competing.

Now you could make a separate cup for aquarias, but I just don't think you should include them in this competition for the reasons cited above.
 
Shedd has exactly two species of primate (both marmosets), so they would essentially gurentee a loss as soon as it were to get drawn. Shedd also only has two ungulates (dolphins and belugas) and the only other mammals at Shedd are the sea lions and sea otters, making for only 6 mammal species making it virtually impossible for them to win half the categories. And the other categories besides mammals they would sweep the opponent. So sorry, no aquariums in this competition.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top