ZooChat Cup Semi-final #2: Berlin (2) vs Burgers (6)

[ShonenJake13]

I reserve my right to vote against any zoo that I consider to be gaining an unfair advantage though just as Shorts did in the Seborgagate match!

That I completely understand and respect, I was merely making the point that this round is different as not only is Berlin still winning, but only one member who has voted for Burgers’ is brand new. My current belief is it’ll be Prague v Berlin for the final.

 

[Vision]

We'll wait and see then..
I reserve my right to vote against any zoo that I consider to be gaining an unfair advantage though just as Shorts did in the Seborgagate match!

Who says you have that right, though? The most important rule of this competition has always been to vote based on the category given, not on anything else. You can't know if the new member voted only on these categories, but you can't know any of the other members who didn't comment about their views voted only on these categories either. The only one who we know isn't voting based on the categories given is you, and you admit so in this post...

 

[Giant Panda]

We'll wait and see then..
I reserve my right to vote against any zoo that I consider to be gaining an unfair advantage though just as Shorts did in the Seborgagate match!

Let me get this straight. Throughout the competition, you've repeatedly protested (loudly) that others' votes have broken rules that don't exist, and now you're boasting about repeatedly breaking the one rule that does? I try to avoid conflict with you pipaluk, I really do, but that is *ridiculous*.

 

[pipaluk]

Who says you have that right, though? The most important rule of this competition has always been to vote based on the category given, not on anything else. You can't know if the new member voted only on these categories, but you can't know any of the other members who didn't comment about their views voted only on these categories either. The only one who we know isn't voting based on the categories given is you, and you admit so in this post...

I made it quite clear I would have voted Berlin regardless of Burgers 1St round fix , so my vote in this round counts!! For me it's a walkover on species for Berlin in both categories! If you think it's fair play for Burgers to pull in votes from nowhere, fair enough , go ahead, Burgers has won.. ..

 

[pipaluk]

Let me get this straight. Throughout the competition, you've repeatedly protested (loudly) that others' votes have broken rules that don't exist, and now you're boasting about repeatedly breaking the one rule that does? I try to avoid conflict with you pipaluk, I really do, but that is *ridiculous*.

Repeatedly is a gross exaggeration!! List them... Please tell me what rule I've broken in this round ? I said I'd vote Berlin anyway! I note you have voted for Burgers in every round!you are clearly an exhibit person , which is fair enough ,but the spirit of the game has gone. As I said in an earlier round, it's clear which zoo will win, the competition has become pointless!

 

[TZDugong]

Repeatedly is a gross exaggeration!! List them... Please tell me what rule I've broken in this round ? I said I'd vote Berlin anyway! I note you have voted for Burgers in every round!you are clearly an exhibit person , which is fair enough ,but the spirit of the game has gone. As I said in an earlier round, it's clear which zoo will win, the competition has become pointless!

How can you say that it’s clear that Burger’s is going to win, when in fact Berlin is currently in the lead!

 

[Brum]

@pipaluk I agree with your frustration at new members joining just to vote, I think it also spoils the ZooChat view. If said new members go on to post on here then it's all good, if not then what's the point?

But this round has Berlin in the lead, it should (in my opinion) win and looks like it might. Maybe you should vote as well...

 

[Vision]

@pipaluk I agree with your frustration at new members joining just to vote, I think it also spoils the ZooChat view. If said new members go on to post on here then it's all good, if not then what's the point?

But this round has Berlin in the lead, it should (in my opinion) win and looks like it might. Maybe you should vote as well...

Alternatively, it is possible the new members just joined recently and coincidentally stumbled upon this topic, reading what it is about and making their vote? Even if they did join purely to vote, that's still not against any rules...

Why should we expect new members to post here, when over half of the people who voted haven't posted here? Posting your opinion was never a requirement, and neither was being an active member on the forum.

 

[Brum]

Alternatively, it is possible the new members just joined recently and coincidentally stumbled upon this topic, reading what it is about and making their vote? Why should we expect new members to post here when over half of the people who voted haven't posted here...

That's sort of my point, if this is the first bit of forum action you've had then maybe introduce yourself within the (specifically created for) discussion thread expressing your new (to us) opinions. I'm aware that some of these new accounts are known on other forums and therefore certain members know who they are but for all the rest of us know these could be sock puppet accounts!

 

[Shruikan]

Regardless of pipaluk i voted for Berlin because they simply have a much higher number of species and in not bad enclosures. And if you look at Pilsen vs Beauval, Pilsen won simply because of numbers but with worse enclosures and Berlin doesn't have these. So easy vote for Berlin

 

[Fallax]

Alternatively, it is possible the new members just joined recently and coincidentally stumbled upon this topic, reading what it is about and making their vote? Even if they did join purely to vote, that's still not against any rules...

Why should we expect new members to post here, when over half of the people who voted haven't posted here? Posting your opinion was never a requirement, and neither was being an active member on the forum.

I think one of the main suspicions rises from the fact that this has happened with Burgers multiple times now.

 

[pipaluk]

Alternatively, it is possible the new members just joined recently and coincidentally stumbled upon this topic, reading what it is about and making their vote? Even if they did join purely to vote, that's still not against any rules...

A convenient view , I would suggest!!

 

[Vision]

Ok, I'm going to approach this a little delicately, because the last thing I want to do is push enthusiastic new contributors away. Indeed, if this silly game I came up with actually attracts new people to the site then that's something I'd be quite proud of. So welcome.

It is true, however, that the current margin in this thread is three votes, and there have been three votes by new members from the Netherlands, who are no doubt very proud of their home country zoo (I certainly would be, as it's easily one of the five best I've ever seen). So what I want to do is just make sure everybody understands exactly how this game is supposed to work.

The poll is *not* about whether you like Burgers more than Wroclaw. If it was, I would vote for Burgers, though I have in fact voted for Wroclaw. That's because the scope of the question is strictly about which zoo is better for reptiles, amphibians, fish and invertebrates. Everything else has to be disregarded. This has been by far the most contentious and enthusiastically engaged in match of the entire project, and I really want to make sure that the purpose of the game is taken into account, so everybody can be confident in the result.

I will not be disregarding any votes: everybody is welcome to contribute, from the newest of newbies to the ultra-obsessives with hundreds of zoos and ten thousand posts to their name. And I have neither the right nor the ability to judge people's reasons for their vote. At the same time, I hope everybody keeps the parameters of the game in mind when they vote, or indeed when they consider whether to change their vote.

The poll remains open for another 30 or so hours. Plenty of time for everybody to keep trying to sway a pivotal couple of votes to their side. May the best zoo for ectothermic animals win.

I'm just going to quote @CGSwans post from when this first happened, in which he made the rules clear for all members (so I hope all potential other new members read this before voting), but in which he also mentioned clearly that he wouldn't be disregarding any votes.

There's no reason for going back and forth the entire time about this; it's been handled in the past, and no rules were broken. While a big part of the game is about convincing others, this shouldn't be an increasingly more unpleasant discussion in which we judge people's votes based on what we can't know.

 

[CGSwans]

Sigh. This again?

This is a game, folks. There is no cup. No prize money. Nobody at the zoos in question care - or at least should care - if their zoo wins.

I will say this: if Burgers (edit: or, indeed, Berlin or Prague) wins this round in circumstances that I consider unduly suspicious, I will honour the rules as established earlier in this edition of the Cup. I will also consider whether to bar Burgers from participating in two future tournaments I have planned, which its success in making it to the semi-finals this time would suggest it is an eminent chance of winning cleanly.

Please don’t make me do this. It’s ridiculous.

 

[pipaluk]

I'm just going to quote @CGSwans post from when this first happened, in which he made the rules clear for all members (so I hope all potential other new members read this before voting), but in which he also mentioned clearly that he wouldn't be disregarding any votes.

There's no reason for going back and forth the entire time about this; it's been handled in the past, and no rules were broken. While a big part of the game is about convincing others, this shouldn't be an increasingly more unpleasant discussion in which we judge people's votes based on what we can't know.

Was this not stated at the end of the Burgers v Wroclaw match? Case proven .....

 

[CGSwans]

That's sort of my point, if this is the first bit of forum action you've had then maybe introduce yourself within the (specifically created for) discussion thread expressing your new (to us) opinions. I'm aware that some of these new accounts are known on other forums and therefore certain members know who they are but for all the rest of us know these could be sock puppet accounts!

Sorry, I’m reconstructing this thread in my head because it’s stupid o’clock here. If this is so that’s reassuring. There’s a key difference between individuals voting and sock puppets doing so. I’m thrilled if this game expands the community here.

 

[pipaluk]

Sigh. This again?

This is a game, folks. There is no cup. No prize money. Nobody at the zoos in question care - or at least should care - if their zoo wins.

I will say this: if Burgers wins this round in circumstances that I consider unduly suspicious, I will honour the rules as established earlier in this edition of the Cup. I will also consider whether to bar Burgers from participating in two future tournaments I have planned, which its success in making it to the semi-finals this time would suggest it is an eminent chance of winning cleanly.

Please don’t make me do this. It’s ridiculous.

I agree that it shouldn't be necessary at all for intervention , but the competition is going to become absolutely pointless if this keeps happening! Believe me, I'm not that worried! My 2 favourite zoos are long gone!

There are clearly some this matters far more to!

 

[FunkyGibbon]

Believe me, I'm not that worried!

Yes, I think that's quite clear....

I share your frustration about this, but I would point out that a) when it was Zurich in the firing line you were remarkably insouciant about the prospect of foul play, and b) this is totally ridiculous.

I'm actually not going to vote in this one. Berlin's excellence in both categories is clear. I trust the case made for Burgers but as I haven't visited I can't really appraise it fairly.

 

[Haasje]

Lets get back to topic, the collection of Berlin ofcource is greater then the one of Burgers. Although its collection is also nothing less from what should be expected from a semi finalist. Personaly i think that exhibits are more important then collections (to a certain extend). As the time of post stamp collections that zoos were have luckly been somerhing of the past. Although i love hippo and penguin exhibits in Berlin. I am more a fan of the multi species exhibition of Burgers and the 'eco system' story telling.