ZooChat European Cup Round 1: Cotswold v Hamburg vs Kolmarden

Ungulates and allies

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
C

CGSwans

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
The category: ungulates and allies. Remember that this includes both odd-toed and even-toed ungulates, elephants, cetaceans and manatees.

Cotswold came to grief on this category last time, against Doue-la-Fontaine. Cup debutant Kolmarden gets to compete on one of their specialist categories. Hamburg’s panorama exhibit is in play, but so too is *that* elephant program.

The rules, in case you’ve forgotten:
- You may choose whatever criteria you like to decide how to vote, as long as it only relates to the category in question.
- You can use whatever resources you like to inform your vote, including Zoolex, Zootierliste, the ZooChat gallery, trip reviews, zoo maps, books and wherever else. You don't have to have visited all the zoos to vote.
- Votes are public and can be changed at any time before the poll closes.
- The aim of the game is to provoke debate. Post explaining why you voted the way you did, and why others should join you.
- Voting closes in two days, and an absolute majority is required to advance.
- The one thing you can't do is vote based on anything other than the given category.

Tomorrow: Nah. Just wait and see.
 
Kolmarden for me. Those mixed species exhibits look truly spectacular, even better than rhino's on the lawn and the African panorama! Hagenbeck didn't stand a chance really, the elephants lost it for them before I'd even really thought about it! ;)
 
It seems as if Kolmarden was an easy win, just looking at exhibit images, it truly passes above Cotswold and Hagenback.
 
It’s certainly looking that way early, though I’d love to see somebody take up the case for either of its opponents.

I find it slightly amusing that Cotswold has twice drawn the category in which it has one of the continent’s most iconic exhibits, and in neither case has it seemingly done it any good.
 
Kolmarden may have the better collection, but those hoofstock species that Cotswold does keep are kept very nicely indeed.... and the view of White Rhinoceros in front of an old English manor house is one I cannot sit back and allow to go in the very first round :p

Cotswold for me.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
...and the view of White Rhinoceros in front of an old English manor house is one I cannot sit back and allow to go in the very first round
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It stuck in my throat to vote against it, but it's not a patch on what can be found in Kolmarden. CWP is truly iconic, my first visit blew my mind and I genuinely thought the rhino and zebra were free to approach us, in my defence I was about 6 at the time, but even now it's still an awe-inspiring sight. But yeah, still going Kolmarden! :p
 
Despite their lovely African panorama Hamburg is just a big no-go for me with their ridiculous elephant feeding. I am waiting to be convinced for the Kolmarden or Cotswold ;)
 
Cotswolds may have rhinos on a lawn, which may be quite picturesque while being slightly surreal, but it hardly makes for one of Europe's great ungulate zoos
 
Can anybody who has been to Kolmarden describe their dolphin show to me? I only just discovered they have it, but it occurs to me that if I’m going to mark Hamburg down on their elephant program then I should probably be consistent with broadly similar dolphin programs too.
 
I have based my vote on the number of species only found in one of the 3 zoos, according to Zootierliste. This is contentious e.g. ZTL only lists 1 species of giraffe, but I have tried to avoid using confusing variables.

HORSES
Kolmarden: Grevy’s zebra

PIGS
Hamburg: Red river hog Warthog
Kolmarden: Wild boar

CAMELS
Kolmarden: Vicuna

DEER
Hamburg: Reeve’s muntjac, wapiti, sika
Kolmarden: Axis deer, fallow deer, Pere David’s deer, moose

BOVIDS
Cotswold: Kirk’s dik-dik
Hamburg: Barbary sheep, Himalayan tahr, greater kudu, gemsbok, impala
Kolmarden: Takin, Alpine ibex, European bison, common eland, lechwe, sable antelope, addax, blesbok, brindled gnu

DOLPHINS
Kolmarden: Bottlenose dolphin

Kolmarden wins at family level; it was only defeated by Hamburg having more pigs.
 
Kolmarden have dolphins shows, is this any better than Hamburg's elephant set-up? Do Kolmarden still have Asian elephants? There are some photos of keepers having free contact with Asian elephants, is this still the case? What is involved in Kolmarden's elephant presentation?
 
Ned said:
Kolmarden have dolphins shows, is this any better than Hamburg's elephant set-up? Do Kolmarden still have Asian elephants? There are some photos of keepers having free contact with Asian elephants, is this still the case? What is involved in Kolmarden's elephant presentation?
Click to expand...

Good enough questions for me to park my vote with Cotswold for now.
 
Hamburg's elephant set-up is badly outdated and therefore, as noted above by several individuals, sinks the zoo right then and there.

Cotsworld does have the iconic image of rhinos on the lawn but as @Ned pointed out that hardly make the zoo an elite member of Europe's 'ungulate club'.

That leaves Kolmarden as the winner, with some spacious exhibits that look aesthetically pleasing and with a variety of species on-show to an eager public.

Kolmarden gets my vote!
 
snowleopard said:
Hamburg's elephant set-up is badly outdated and therefore, as noted above by several individuals, sinks the zoo right then and there.

Cotsworld does have the iconic image of rhinos on the lawn but as @Ned pointed out that hardly make the zoo an elite member of Europe's 'ungulate club'.

That leaves Kolmarden as the winner, with some spacious exhibits that look aesthetically pleasing and with a variety of species on-show to an eager public.

Kolmarden gets my vote!
Click to expand...

But if Kolmarden has the same issues with its elephants, then isn’t it disbarred by the same logic?
 
Are these spacious enclosures accessible all year or do the animals spend the Swedish winter shut away?
 
CGSwans said:
But if Kolmarden has the same issues with its elephants, then isn’t it disbarred by the same logic?
Click to expand...

Good point. We'll need someone to confirm whether or not Kolmarden has the same protocol as evident at Hamburg in terms of dealing with elephants.
 
Does the Kolmarden elephant program involve dressing up their elephants and touching them? I'm doubting my vote because shown from the pictures from the article above...
 
I've been doing some googling using my best Swedish (and google translate :p) and I found several recent videos & pictures in which the elephants were kept hands-on in a Hanoverian way. That is better than Hamburg, but still outdated....

The dolphin show also appears to be very much a show where "dolphin behavior is combined with modern visual technology". The is probably some education message hidden, but also recent pictures just show an oldfashioned show.

So I am casting my vote with Cotswold for now, unless a recent visitor can tell me otherwise and that the situation is completely different.
 
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