I have yes but I also thought the Bronx was a bit of a mixed bag but its good get the opinion of a more informed formster.Did you visit San Diego then?
Zoos in Europe vs USA
- Thread starter Arizona Docent
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Does Budapest count? I imagine that until recently Eastern European zoos were uniformly bad but I also imagine that now they're improving.
I think it’s important to note that ‘Eastern Europe’ isn’t a monolithic whole. What might be more appropriately called Central Europe has a solid zoo tradition and pretty high standards although the legacy of the communist era might remain in places.
Going back to big differences in the best and worst enclosures in a zoo, Tallinn Zoo in Estonia, a country in Northern Europe but a part of Northern Europe scarred by illegal Soviet occupation and its legacy, springs to mind.
I do have concerns that whilst the aesthetically impressive new developments are important (perhaps most dramatically the polar bears have gone from barren cages to spacious enclosures) there are still too many shabby rows of cages and yards which should just be demolished.
drill
Well-Known Member
I can't think of a zoo I visited that did not allow dogs. I agree with some here that the US "wipes the floor with herps." In the US, California condors, Eastern Screech owls, Northern saw-whet owls, and Mississippi kites are the only unique species I can think of here, not in Europe.
Trailside has signs saying dogs are not allowed but I observed several people walking them in anyway. A few other native birds of prey will be here but not in Europe. There are tons of exotics kept in Europe not kept here, though. I think the only exotics we have that they don't are the few South American species kept at DWA.
~Thylo
How about in native North American reptiles in Europe? Rattlesnakes, Gila Monsters, and snapping turtles are common enough, but how about horned lizards, collared lizards, pond and painted turtles, hognose snakes, coachwhips?
Any North American amphibians in Europe?
Heterodon nasicus, Chrysemys picta and Crotaphytus collaris are common in the exotic pet trade, while not all Crotalus species (and localities) are easy to get. Some European states have outlawed the trade and husbandry of snapping turtles.
Phrynosoma platyrhinos is kept in a few zoos as well as privately.
There are quite a few North American amphibians available, such as Ambystoma tigrinum, Hyla cinerea or Siren lacertina. Among others, I keep Incilius alvarius and Taricha granulosa.
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Ah, another Randy Savage of Herpetology...
Well, maybe you can name the American equivalents of the outdoor exhibits in Innsbruck, Nockalm or Bern. Or any American institutions that keep their venomous snakes in enclosures of dimensions that exceed the rule of thumb that Andrew brought up.
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Interesting. The amphibian species you mention don't surprise me, they're all fairly common. Don't blame them for banning snappers though, they pack quite a punch!
Quite a few. King cobras definitely get snubbed similarly to how large pythons do, but several US zoos keep their venomous snakes in fairly large set-ups, on-display at least. I remember Atlanta having pretty large enclosures for their cobras, and LA's desert building in LAIR having some large enclosures as well.
But now I ask you, how many European zoos do the same (besides Innsbruck and Nockalm)?
~Thylo
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Quite a few. King cobras definitely get snubbed similarly to how large pythons do, but several US zoos keep their venomous snakes in fairly large set-ups, on-display at least. I remember Atlanta having pretty large enclosures for their cobras, and LA's desert building in LAIR having some large enclosures as well.
But now I ask you, how many European zoos do the same (besides Innsbruck and Nockalm)?
~Thylo
If you include Britain in Europe (now there's another question!) - then, all British zoos have to. If they are not, then they are either operating illegally in contravention of the new version of the ZLA, or have yet to be inspected under it. We were the very first back in January '19, and if it is administered fairly and equally, then I suspect some UK zoos are in for a bit of a shock...
Other collections I have visited with very good outdoor herp exhibits in Europe include Zoo Augsburg, Tiergarten Nürnberg, Wildpark Schwartze-Berge and Wilhelma.
Britain is absolutely and indisputably part of Europe.
Then the two of us have a different concept of the term "fairly". The few larger exhibits for venomous snakes in US zoos are usually filled with several individuals or species, therebye decreasing the individual space for each specimen. I think the largest venomous snake exhibit I've seen so far in America was the faux safari tent that held a gaboon viper at Alexandria Zoo (LA).
TLD already gave you part of an answer in regard to Europe (including the UK). Do you really insinuate I would only know Innsbruck & Nockalm?
...Off the top of my head, Landau, Eimsheim, Calden, Zürch, Bern, Lausanne, Kolmården, Randers, Vienna, to a certain degree Scheidegg and Rheinberg...have decent to good exhibits. I haven't been to Eschlikon, so I can't say anything about it, and it has been a while since I've been to Helsinki's Tropicario.
Then the two of us have a different concept of the term "fairly". The few larger exhibits for venomous snakes in US zoos are usually filled with several individuals or species, therebye decreasing the individual space for each specimen. I think the largest venomous snake exhibit I've seen so far in America was the faux safari tent that held a gaboon viper at Alexandria Zoo (LA).
TLD already gave you part of an answer in regard to Europe (including the UK). Do you really insinuate I would only know Innsbruck & Nockalm?
Well I certainly don't want to pretend I know more than you when it comes to venomous snakes (or reptiles in general)
The enclosure I'm thinking of at Atlanta only has one individual but you're correct in that most zoos keep multiple individuals together. When it comes to venomous snakes personally the only mixed species displays I like seeing are when you have a terrestrial species mixed with a compatible arboreal species as they would each occupy a different section of the enclosure with little to no interaction with one another (from my novice understanding).I wasn't trying to insinuate anything, I just wanted more examples
Unfortunately I've yet to visit any of those collections which might explain why my opinion is the way it is, but hopefully I'll get to change that in the future. Until then, I will take your learned word for it.~Thylo
Thanks for your obligingness. Can you remember what species is kept in that exhibit at Atlanta?
Red Spitting Cobra. I only saw one individual in the enclosure, though there were several logs to hide in so it's possible another one was present without me seeing it.
~Thylo
Is that the specimen in the Zoo Atlanta gallery that is anything but red? Naja pallida is another cobra species with cannibalistic tendencies.
I remember it being reddish but yes that's the one. Again I didn't see any other individuals in the enclosure.
~Thylo