Zoos that should phase out elephants

[RhinoHippoElephantGiraffe]

Some zoos just need to get rid of elephants! The AZA standards for keeping elephants is having a minimum of 3 (should be changed to 4) elephants and big enough indoor and outdoor areas. Some zoos meet all the criteria, but have had premature deaths or have had several elephants die within a few years.
Here are the zoos in the United States that should phase out elephants:
- ABQ BioPark (If one more current elephant dies.)
- Bronx (Whenever Happy* dies) *If Patty dies first, then keep Happy until she dies. If Happy dies first, they should move Patty to an elephant sanctuary.)
- Cameron Park (They should relocate Tembo this year.)
- El Paso (Whenever Savannah dies)
- Fresno Chaffee (Relocate their current 3 to another facility.)
- Honolulu (Relocate remaining elephant when one dies.
- Little Rock (When all 3 current elephants die.)
- Los Angeles (Relocate Billy and phase out when their three females die.)
- Miami (African only when one of the two dies.)
- Phoenix (When Indu dies)
- Point Defiance (When Suki dies)
- San Antonio (When both remaining elephants die).
- Toledo (When one of the two remaining elephants dies.)
- Topeka (both African and Asian)
- Utah's Hogle (Should move Christie and Zuri in the next few years.)

 

[IndianRhino]

ABQ BioPark (If one more current elephant dies.)

Why? You can’t blame them for having a string of EEHV deaths. They are trying their hardest to prevent this in future and shouldn’t just completely give up and phase out their elephants as soon as they lose a few calves to the virus.

Fresno Chaffee (Relocate their current 3 to another facility.)

Why would/should they do that? They have a very valuable group of breeding-aged elephants and there’s no need to relocate them.

Los Angeles (Relocate Billy and phase out when their three females die.)

They have a relatively new elephant habitat and personally I think they should utilize this to bring in a few breeding cows from Ringling/White Oak or ALS to breed with Billy rather than just phasing out the species altogether.

Also there has been a ton of discussion regarding this sort of thing in the elephant population and discussion threads, so I suggest you read that. Some of these ideas you’re posting here are very unlikely to happen so it might be a good idea to read through those threads.

The majority of the zoos of the other zoos you’ve listed here have either already said they’re going to phase out the species or are very likely to.

 

[birdsandbats]

Some zoos just need to get rid of elephants! The AZA standards for keeping elephants is having a minimum of 3 (should be changed to 4) elephants and big enough indoor and outdoor areas. Some zoos meet all the criteria, but have had premature deaths or have had several elephants die within a few years.
Here are the zoos in the United States that should phase out elephants:
- ABQ BioPark (If one more current elephant dies.)
- Bronx (Whenever Happy* dies) *If Patty dies first, then keep Happy until she dies. If Happy dies first, they should move Patty to an elephant sanctuary.)
- Cameron Park (They should relocate Tembo this year.)
- El Paso (Whenever Savannah dies)
- Fresno Chaffee (Relocate their current 3 to another facility.)
- Honolulu (Relocate remaining elephant when one dies.
- Little Rock (When all 3 current elephants die.)
- Los Angeles (Relocate Billy and phase out when their three females die.)
- Miami (African only when one of the two dies.)
- Phoenix (When Indu dies)
- Point Defiance (When Suki dies)
- San Antonio (When both remaining elephants die).
- Toledo (When one of the two remaining elephants dies.)
- Topeka (both African and Asian)
- Utah's Hogle (Should move Christie and Zuri in the next few years.)

While I am not familiar with the elephant complexes at all of these zoos, I do know that many of them are fine (or even great). You cannot blame a facility for EEHV deaths and this post just shows you have fundamental misunderstanding of elephant husbandry.

 

[Echobeast]

Some zoos meet all the criteria, but have had premature deaths or have had several elephants die within a few years.

This shows a poor understanding on elephant care in AZA. Case in point: putting these facilities on the list.

- ABQ BioPark (If one more current elephant dies.)

- Fresno Chaffee (Relocate their current 3 to another facility.)

- Los Angeles (Relocate Billy and phase out when their three females die.)

 

[RhinoHippoElephantGiraffe]

In addition to this list, all zoos in Canada except for African Lion Safari should eliminate elephants. Those zoos are the Edmonton Valley Zoo (Asian), Hemmingford Parc Safari (African), and Granby Zoo (African).

 

[nczoofan]

These threads are getting tiring….

Its like every other thread these days is someone playing Monday morning quarterback.

 

[Echobeast]

These threads are getting tiring….

Its like every other thread these days is someone playing Monday morning quarterback.

Monday morning Zookeeper

 

[Great Argus]

These threads are getting tiring….

Its like every other thread these days is someone playing Monday morning quarterback.

Some people don't seem to understand that their thoughts and opinions do not require a whole new thread every time and/or not helpful to be posted.

(Harsh perhaps, but a few people recently are constantly posting unnecessarily and without much forethought and thus have been continually asked to stop by large numbers of people...)

 

[15399]

Some zoos just need to get rid of elephants! The AZA standards for keeping elephants is having a minimum of 3 (should be changed to 4) elephants and big enough indoor and outdoor areas. Some zoos meet all the criteria, but have had premature deaths or have had several elephants die within a few years.
Here are the zoos in the United States that should phase out elephants:
- ABQ BioPark (If one more current elephant dies.)
- Bronx (Whenever Happy* dies) *If Patty dies first, then keep Happy until she dies. If Happy dies first, they should move Patty to an elephant sanctuary.)
- Cameron Park (They should relocate Tembo this year.)
- El Paso (Whenever Savannah dies)
- Fresno Chaffee (Relocate their current 3 to another facility.)
- Honolulu (Relocate remaining elephant when one dies.
- Little Rock (When all 3 current elephants die.)
- Los Angeles (Relocate Billy and phase out when their three females die.)
- Miami (African only when one of the two dies.)
- Phoenix (When Indu dies)
- Point Defiance (When Suki dies)
- San Antonio (When both remaining elephants die).
- Toledo (When one of the two remaining elephants dies.)
- Topeka (both African and Asian)
- Utah's Hogle (Should move Christie and Zuri in the next few years.)

Haven't you also made threads/comments saying that every zoo should have elephants, giraffes, Rhinos, and hippos? You can't have it both ways. Also- even if you feel certain exhibits are sub-par (I'm not saying any of these zoos are or aren't as I've visited none of them), there is one option that doesn't require phasing out the species: building a new exhibit or expanding the exhibit they have. At least some of those zoos certainly have the space that they could build a top-tier elephant complex if it was a priority (again- not saying this is or isn't a good idea).

 

[Aardwolf]

Twenty years ago, if you’d asked me which zoo absolutely needed to phase out elephants (and giraffes… and lions…) I would have hands-down said Dallas. Look at them now.

Besides, some of the exhibits mentioned really aren’t bad at all.

 

[Lafone]

Some zoos just need to get rid of elephants! The AZA standards for keeping elephants is having a minimum of 3 (should be changed to 4) elephants and big enough indoor and outdoor areas. Some zoos meet all the criteria, but have had premature deaths or have had several elephants die within a few years.
Here are the zoos in the United States that should phase out elephants:
- ABQ BioPark (If one more current elephant dies.)
- Bronx (Whenever Happy* dies) *If Patty dies first, then keep Happy until she dies. If Happy dies first, they should move Patty to an elephant sanctuary.)
- Cameron Park (They should relocate Tembo this year.)
- El Paso (Whenever Savannah dies)
- Fresno Chaffee (Relocate their current 3 to another facility.)
- Honolulu (Relocate remaining elephant when one dies.
- Little Rock (When all 3 current elephants die.)
- Los Angeles (Relocate Billy and phase out when their three females die.)
- Miami (African only when one of the two dies.)
- Phoenix (When Indu dies)
- Point Defiance (When Suki dies)
- San Antonio (When both remaining elephants die).
- Toledo (When one of the two remaining elephants dies.)
- Topeka (both African and Asian)
- Utah's Hogle (Should move Christie and Zuri in the next few years.)

I’m not an expert on zoos in the US but I have to recoil a bit to see the number of proposed ‘move x to a sanctuary’ points in your post.

What about the individuals knowing their home and their keepers? I get the point on individuals benefiting from a group but they have to join a new one which can be a problem and you’re talking about disrupting a whole life lived in some cases. I often wonder when people talk so casually about ‘moving to a sanctuary’ whether you care about individual animals or are just trying to make a point. Also ‘when do and so dies’ is a very casual dismissal of an animal in captivity who deserves our best effort and care. They aren’t recyclables.

 

[birdsandbats]

Also, don't be to quick to assume that these sanctuaries are actually better homes then the ones they are in right now. In many cases they probably wouldn't be. Sanctuaries are fundamentally the same thing as zoos, and zoos have a lot more money to put into animal care. In addition, many places claiming to be sanctuaries have notoriously bad animal care.

 

[SusScrofa]

- Los Angeles (Relocate Billy and phase out when their three females die.)

Question: Have you actually been to the Los Angeles Zoo recently?
They probably have one of the largest and nicest elephant enclosures in the US. You may barely even be able to spot the elephants, its such a vast ground.

Miami also has ample space for its elephants and Bronx's enclosure isnt bad either.Don't remember Phoenix's well and haven't been to the other zoos, so won't comment on those.

 

[RhinoHippoElephantGiraffe]

Question: Have you actually been to the Los Angeles Zoo recently?
They probably have one of the largest and nicest elephant enclosures in the US. You may barely even be able to spot the elephants, its such a vast ground.

Miami also has ample space for its elephants and Bronx's enclosure isnt bad either.Don't remember Phoenix's well and haven't been to the other zoos, so won't comment on those.

All 3 of those zoos have fewer than 3 elephants, and will probably phase them out when one of their remaining elephants die. Miami has 2 Africans who are elderly. Bronx has already announced that when one of the remaining two elephants dies, the other will move to an elephant sanctuary. Phoenix is down to a single elderly Asian female after the loss of two other elephants in the past two years, and when she dies, they will probably end their elephant program.

 

[Great Argus]

All 3 of those zoos have fewer than 3 elephants, and will probably phase them out when one of their remaining elephants die. Miami has 2 Africans who are elderly. Bronx has already announced that when one of the remaining two elephants dies, the other will move to an elephant sanctuary. Phoenix is down to a single elderly Asian female after the loss of two other elephants in the past two years, and when she dies, they will probably end their elephant program.

Lot of speculation here me thinks. Yes it is probably correct but it's unnecessary to keep posting it over and over.

Also nothing to say re the multiple well-informed people offering advice and criticism?

 

[SusScrofa]

All 3 of those zoos have fewer than 3 elephants, and will probably phase them out when one of their remaining elephants die. Miami has 2 Africans who are elderly. Bronx has already announced that when one of the remaining two elephants dies, the other will move to an elephant sanctuary. Phoenix is down to a single elderly Asian female after the loss of two other elephants in the past two years, and when she dies, they will probably end their elephant program.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't have enough knowledge about those institutions to comment on whether they'll be done with elephants.
But the title of the thread you created was not "Zoos that WILL phase out elephants", it was "Zoos that SHOULD phase out elephants". That to me implied that the facilities you listed were in some form inadequate for holding elephants, which from at least the facilities that I mentioned, is simply not true.

 

[Zoofan15]

Some zoos just need to get rid of elephants! The AZA standards for keeping elephants is having a minimum of 3 (should be changed to 4) elephants and big enough indoor and outdoor areas. Some zoos meet all the criteria, but have had premature deaths or have had several elephants die within a few years.
Here are the zoos in the United States that should phase out elephants:
- ABQ BioPark (If one more current elephant dies.)
- Bronx (Whenever Happy* dies) *If Patty dies first, then keep Happy until she dies. If Happy dies first, they should move Patty to an elephant sanctuary.)
- Cameron Park (They should relocate Tembo this year.)
- El Paso (Whenever Savannah dies)
- Fresno Chaffee (Relocate their current 3 to another facility.)
- Honolulu (Relocate remaining elephant when one dies.
- Little Rock (When all 3 current elephants die.)
- Los Angeles (Relocate Billy and phase out when their three females die.)
- Miami (African only when one of the two dies.)
- Phoenix (When Indu dies)
- Point Defiance (When Suki dies)
- San Antonio (When both remaining elephants die).
- Toledo (When one of the two remaining elephants dies.)
- Topeka (both African and Asian)
- Utah's Hogle (Should move Christie and Zuri in the next few years.)

A better way to start this thread would have been to offer detailed reasoning for your opinion on each of these zoos that you think should phase out elephants.

Sometimes it’s worth putting time into a thread before starting it, so that you can be sure it offers value to the community and leads to interesting discussions/engagement.

 

[tigris115]

IMHO, the Bronx has the space to build a new elephant complex (I'd legit kill someone to make this happen) but u got 2 problems

1. Money, especially in NYC. Unless a super rich dude made a donation

2. PR, especially with Happy. Tho Billy of L.A. was controversial but most people stopped once he got a nice new home and friends

 

[Corangurilla]

- Phoenix (When Indu dies)

I don’t think they’re gonna do that. Phoenix opened their elephant expansion 3 years ago, and said expansion has a lot of elephant-specific signage (like the elephant butt…). Why would they throw all that away? Also, Chutti the Indian Rhino is only there until a suitable female is found, I think. Don’t quote me on that.
Second of all, when I visited Phoenix back in January this year, I noticed some construction going on behind the expansion, as well as a cutout of a bull Asian Elephant. I also noticed a path being built to the left of the path that goes down to the ground-level Indian Rhino viewing, and it seemed to lead to where that construction was going on. I have a picture of the cutout, but not the path, and I’ll post that in the morning.
I suspect that Phoenix was/is building another elephant yard, and might be transitioning to a bachelor facility sometime in the future. But that’s just my hunch.

 

[tigris115]

IMO, it'd be better to rank elephant complexes by age and see their suitability.