Zoos which are no longer open

FBBird said:
I that's probably right, also he had kind of 'moved on', transferring his energies to the Otter Trust, finding and developing a site for that. Also, the Pheasant Trust was effectively superseded by the Workd Pheasant Association from 1975 onwards, which can't have helped.
I never visited in the later years, but know someone who worked there at that stage.
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I get the impression that many zoos enter a period of confusion, which can end in either a change of direction or their decline, when their engergetic and charismatic founder dies or withdraws. The answer may be to establish a trust, which can continue the original ethos, but the risk attached to that, us that the trust may rise up and eject its founder, as has happened with at least one high profile collection, and nearly happened with another -- both thankfully still going.
 
FBBird said:
I that's probably right, also he had kind of 'moved on', transferring his energies to the Otter Trust, finding and developing a site for that. Also, the Pheasant Trust was effectively superseded by the Workd Pheasant Association from 1975 onwards, which can't have helped.
I never visited in the later years, but know someone who worked there at that stage.
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Philip Ware released a pair of otters from the Otter Trust on our opposite river bank - the river being the Thet. They've done very well since then - some (not me) might say 'too well'!
 
Susan Eckholdt said:
Philip Ware released a pair of otters from the Otter Trust on our opposite river bank - the river being the Thet. They've done very well since then - some (not me) might say 'too well'!
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Historically, otters were a damn nuisance to anyone trying to keep waterfowl. Obviously the otters were entitled to be there, and a waterfowl enclosure would have been in their living space. However, I think all that got forgotten about when mink came along, because mink could be so destructive. However, now otters are back in some numbers (and to a certain extent controlling the mink), I suspect one or two waterfowl collections may have issues with them....
Nothing against otters of course, glad they're back.
 
Carl Jones said:
What we need to know is why so many small animal collections fail? Is the rate of failure similar to small businesses?

Why did the Norfolk Wildlife Park fold? I remember it had a reputation as being a progressive collection with a bold vision. Yet it failed to survive more than a generation. Why was this?
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Inland location in Norfolk? Though Banham is similarly remote and seems to do okay.
 
FBBird said:
I'll start with the exotics:
Barbary Sheep, North Anerican River Otter (always referred to as Canadian Otter), Sun Bear, Scarlet Macaw, Blue & Yellow Macaw, Emerald Dove, White-crested Laughingthrush, White-throated Laughingthrush.
European Beaver, Suslik, Wild European Rabbit, Brown Hare, Coypu (introduced species, since extirpated in the wild in UK), Beech Marten, Wolverine, European Lynx, Wildcat, Grey Seal, Common Seal, Red Fox, Arctic Fox, Brown Bear, Iberian Wolf, Wild Boar, Red Deer, Roe Deer, Fallow Deer, Reindeer, Mouflon, Ibex, European Bison, European Spoonbill, Greater Flamingo, Night Heron, Grey Heron, White Stork, Black-winged Stilt, Oystercatcher, Curlew, Stone Curlew, Lapwing, Red-legged Partridge, Snowy Owl, European Eagle Owl, Little Owl, Barn Owl, European Scops Owl, Tengmalm's Owl, Raven, Alpine Chough, Azure-winged Magpie, Wheatear, Goldfinch, Redstart, Turtle Dove, Collared Dove. These are the ones I can definitely recall. There were of course others. I've not touched on the extensive pheasant and waterfowl collections.
Philip Wayre was of course the inventor of the term 'Wildlife Park'.
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Just remembered White-tailed, Golden and Bateleur Eagles!
 
Andrew Swales said:
In later times Barbary Macaques eventually replaced the Brown Bears, and I think that there had been Chamois at some stage...
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There was talk of adding some herps, which I'm not sure ever came to fruition. I need to did out some info.....
 
Pertinax said:
Inland location in Norfolk? Though Banham is similarly remote and seems to do okay.
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Both Norfolk Wildlife Park and (more so) Kilverstone had much better road access than Banham. For Norfolk, I am sure the reason is as described by FBBird - at the same time as Philip Wayre lost the heavy media coverage from Anglia TV in Norwich, including the prime-time children's quiz show, 'The Survival Game', his attentions and ambitions were focused elsewhere; and the stagnation started - and the newly founded WPA took the attention away from the Pheasant Trust.

The coastal/seaside zoos of East Anglia have not been especially successful, historically. Inland, catches traffic on the way to and from the coast, and has a significantly higher resident population to identify with 'their' zoo.

With Kilverstone, which had everything going for it - good road access, a pretty stately-home and superb park setting, titled owners, excellent media and public relations - I feel the main issue was the lack of agreement between the founding generation and the 'inheriting' one, as regards direction. This has killed other zoos in the UK and is responsible for the break-up of many a family farm, or indeed other business. It is a problem solved by the countries successful landed families (such as the Tavistocks and the Baths), by having an abrupt and total change of control between the generations.
 
Andrew Swales said:
I feel the main issue was the lack of agreement between the founding generation and the 'inheriting' one, as regards direction. This has killed other zoos in the UK and is responsible for the break-up of many a family farm, or indeed other business. It is a problem solved by the countries successful landed families (such as the Tavistocks and the Baths), by having an abrupt and total change of control between the generations.
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I was going to suggest the generational effect also. Did Philip Wayre have descendants/relatives that took over from him toward the end or did it pass into other hands?
 
Andrew Swales said:
Both Norfolk Wildlife Park and (more so) Kilverstone had much better road access than Banham.
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Andrew Swales said:
With Kilverstone, which had everything going for it - good road access, a pretty stately-home and superb park setting, titled owners, excellent media and public relations - I feel the main issue was the lack of agreement between the founding generation and the 'inheriting' one, as regards direction.
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On a related note, I have often reflected that one of the more subtle aspects that makes it a particular shame from my point of view that Kilverstone closed is the fact that of all the collections in Norfolk, it is the only one which was well-served by public transport links to outside the area (thanks to hourly trains from Peterborough to Thetford) and as such the only one which - were it still around - I could visit reasonably easily!

Conversely, reaching somewhere like Banham or Thrigby Hall is nigh-Sisyphean :p
 
Pertinax said:
I was going to suggest the generational effect also. Did Philip Wayre have descendants/relatives that took over from him toward the end or did it pass into other hands?
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Philip Wayre died only in 2014 at the age of 93, a year after his wife. She had children by a previous marriage, but I cannot find any record of any descendants of Philip Wayre. I remember Roy Grout as the long-standing manager of both the park and the Pheasant Trust.
 
Andrew Swales said:
Philip Wayre died only in 2014 at the age of 93, a year after his wife. She had children by a previous marriage, but I cannot find any record of any descendants of Philip Wayre. I remember Roy Grout as the long-standing manager of both the park and the Pheasant Trust.
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I've got Wayre's autobiography 'Wind in the Reeds' which covers the first half of his life, and 'The River People' which is largely about otters, and I can't recall any mention of children, need to have a look at it, as I had a feeling there were some.....
The place in its her day was wonderul, and I wonder if there is scope for such a specialist (mainly) European fauna collection now? I know there's the odd one with that kind of emphasis, but they tend to be more restricted in scope, very mammal-high.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
On a related note, I have often reflected that one of the more subtle aspects that makes it a particular shame from my point of view that Kilverstone closed is the fact that of all the collections in Norfolk, it is the only one which was well-served by public transport links to outside the area (thanks to hourly trains from Peterborough to Thetford) and as such the only one which - were it still around - I could visit reasonably easily!

Conversely, reaching somewhere like Banham or Thrigby Hall is nigh-Sisyphean :p
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Thrigby Hall is worth it when you get there, and there's always the chance of seeing clouds of Pink-footed Geese in the air on the way!
 
FBBird said:
I've got Wayre's autobiography 'Wind in the Reeds' which covers the first half of his life, and 'The River People' which is largely about otters, and I can't recall any mention of children, need to have a look at it, as I had a feeling there were some.....
The place in its her day was wonderul, and I wonder if there is scope for such a specialist (mainly) European fauna collection now? I know there's the odd one with that kind of emphasis, but they tend to be more restricted in scope, very mammal-high.
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According to his obituary he is survived by two daughters from a previous marriage.
 
FBBird said:
The place in its her day was wonderul, and I wonder if there is scope for such a specialist (mainly) European fauna collection now? I know there's the odd one with that kind of emphasis, but they tend to be more restricted in scope, very mammal-high.
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Probably the best collection of this sort remaining in Europe is Alpenzoo, which (as one may recall from my comprehensive walkthrough account of the collection) I was extremely impressed with, and which features a large number of native bird, reptile and amphibian species.... along with a near-complete set of native Alpine fish.

FBBird said:
I've got Wayre's autobiography 'Wind in the Reeds' which covers the first half of his life, and 'The River People' which is largely about otters, and I can't recall any mention of children, need to have a look at it, as I had a feeling there were some.....
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Just flicked through my copy of The River People - a signed copy I found in a charity shop for 50p some years ago - and couldn't find any mention of children.
 
Brum said:
I remember this, it was one of your walk throughs that you actually completed... :p
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Brum said:
I remember this, it was one of your walk throughs that you actually completed... :p
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When we were house-hunting in 1980 we viewed a beautiful property with a lake, either in or near Holt, Norfolk.
The owner was convinced that I was Philip Ware's daughter, so I guess he must have had at least one!
 
Andrew Swales said:
Could these be step-daughters? His wife Jeanne was married twice and had two daughters by her fist husband, and a son who predeceased her.
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Possibly- if they had a mix-up with the relationships for the obituary.

Many years ago we were driving around Suffolk and decided to try and find the Otter Sanctuary at Earsham. We stopped at a tiny filling station in a village to ask directions and there was a man at the pumps filling a small Renault car with petrol. It was Philip Wayre. We asked about his sanctuary but he said it wasn't open yet. We said 'thanks' and drove off...
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Probably the best collection of this sort remaining in Europe is Alpenzoo,

I
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Pertinax said:
Possibly- if they had a mix-up with the relationships for the obituary.

Many years ago we were driving around Suffolk and decided to try and find the Otter Sanctuary at Earsham. We stopped at a tiny filling station in a village to ask directions and there was a man at the pumps filling a small Renault car with petrol. It was Philip Wayre. We asked about his sanctuary but he said it wasn't open yet. We said 'thanks' and drove off...
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Something about small Renaults and zoo people, perhaps. I once rode in Molly Badhams, and she joked that all the flower beds and trees at Twycross had to be at least far enough apart to allow her Renault 5 to pass through, everywhere - and, it had all its interior door and window handles (save the drivers) removed, so that the Chimps couldn't get out...
 
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