Zootierliste Goes Worldwide

Just a quick PSA for the USA editors: please be mindful that, per the AZA TAG for giraffes, there are no known purebred Reticulated and only a few purebred Rothschild's Giraffes left in North America. The Reticulated population is managed by phenotype, but these are non-subspecies animals and should be uploaded to the non-subspecies page on ZTL, not the Reticulated.

~Thylo
 
Amazing news!

It's a pity that after a change in the publication policy on Zootierlist that prevented me from publishing photographs a few years ago, I did'nt participate again in editing the page and currently I do'nt remember what my credentials were...
 
Very exciting to hear of the expansion. I've sent quite a few species lists to ZTL over the years, although I'm not a member because I am quite bad at website editing and would be constantly terrified of messing anything up (thanks, anxiety!)

Comically enough, I found out this news through a different website and didn't find this thread until today. So I might as well share this here:

After hearing the news (and not realising it had already been shared on this thread) I went out into the digital corners of the world and shared this thread (and other versions for the other continents) on how I usually format my species list emails and what information might be helpful when sending it. With additional information like recent births, amounts of a certain species and separate group holdings, ZTL instantly becomes a way more informational source!

I would've posted my guide here if I had known this thread even existed, but I've already made the thread now so... Happy zoo-ing, everyone!
 
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I want to mention that data from ZIMS/Species360 is forbidden to be used as source on Zootierliste. Please consider using other sources like press releases, social media releases, Zoo guidebooks, personal visits (with exact date), scientific publications and others.
 
Eagle said:
I want to mention that data from ZIMS/Species360 is forbidden to be used as source on Zootierliste. Please consider using other sources like press releases, social media releases, Zoo guidebooks, personal visits (with exact date), scientific publications and others.
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May I ask why ZIMS/Species360 are forbidden? This information would be more accurate and up to date compared to a one time visited (where you rarely see all animals and know their sex ratio). You could argue that Species360 is not accessable to the public, but you can make species holding request to get an overview of a specific species. Regardless, ZIMS/Species360 and ZooTierListe are both used as sources in scientific papers. Which shows that having Species360 as a source on ZTL, still makes ZTL a valid source for scientific papers.
 
JurassicMax said:
May I ask why ZIMS/Species360 are forbidden? This information would be more accurate and up to date compared to a one time visited (where you rarely see all animals and know their sex ratio). You could argue that Species360 is not accessable to the public, but you can make species holding request to get an overview of a specific species. Regardless, ZIMS/Species360 and ZooTierListe are both used as sources in scientific papers. Which shows that having Species360 as a source on ZTL, still makes ZTL a valid source for scientific papers.
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Sex ratio doesn't play a role in ZTL, because we can't be as accurate as ZIMS in the case of individual animals. ZIMS isn't often correct in listing the correct subspecies and the most important point is, that the zoos own their data on ZIMS. If they want them to be public, they would make them public. So we have to rely on other sources than ZIMS/Species360. We still want to be trustworthy partners with zoos. We have been in the past and still want to be in the future. So if anyone stands out negatively with using data from ZIMS/Species360 we have no other choice than banning the specific user from ZTL. This topic can't be negotiated.
 
Eagle said:
Sex ratio doesn't play a role in ZTL, because we can't be as accurate as ZIMS in the case of individual animals. ZIMS isn't often correct in listing the correct subspecies and the most important point is, that the zoos own their data on ZIMS. If they want them to be public, they would make them public. So we have to rely on other sources than ZIMS/Species360. We still want to be trustworthy partners with zoos. We have been in the past and still want to be in the future. So if anyone stands out negatively with using data from ZIMS/Species360 we have no other choice than banning the specific user from ZTL. This topic can't be negotiated.
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Well that's a shame.
Regardless, if sex ratio are known through other channels (Instagram, Studbooks, Stocklists etc) than these can be added right? Most holders on ZTL do have info on sex ratios.
What is the point of using ZIMS/Species360 if the subspecies are not correct?
 
Before you add data, please read the FAQ and other information to become familiar with the system. It also helps a lot to read the entries in European zoos.

Another important point: the names of the cities.
Before you report a zoo as still missing, look through the lists carefully or search in different ways.
The names from "symbol" alphabets were "translated" into the Latin alphabet, but based on the original pronunciation. Therefore there may be deviations from English or other names. In countries that use the Latin alphabet, the native name was adopted. The names were usually neither translated into German nor into English.
That's why, for example, Prague can be found under Praha.

Please also pay attention to the correct location. Some zoos are not in big cities but in suburbs, but are named after the big city.

Otherwise, as with the lottery: information without guarantee (but we do our best)
 
JurassicMax said:
Well that's a shame.
Regardless, if sex ratio are known through other channels (Instagram, Studbooks, Stocklists etc) than these can be added right? Most holders on ZTL do have info on sex ratios.
What is the point of using ZIMS/Species360 if the subspecies are not correct?
Click to expand...

sure, when you know the sex ratio, you can add it
 
One slight question is what to do with regards to non-specific animals? For exmaple, the Horniman Museum lists its Twig Catfish as Farlowella spp., and having seen them on my visit last week, I can confirm which the collection holds them, but can't add it to ZTL as I don't know what species to place it under. Is there a solution, or should I simply not add the entry until I can confirm the species status?
 
Kalaw said:
One slight question is what to do with regards to non-specific animals? For exmaple, the Horniman Museum lists its Twig Catfish as Farlowella spp., and having seen them on my visit last week, I can confirm which the collection holds them, but can't add it to ZTL as I don't know what species to place it under. Is there a solution, or should I simply not add the entry until I can confirm the species status?
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They're usually not added. Amersfoort has only had one cichlid listed for years despite having a lot more, because the others aren't currently identified (something I've been trying to do for months...)

On the other hand, some animals are listed without a known species, such as "Pricklenape (unknown species) (Acanthosaura spec.)" held in Köln and Neu-Ulm.

It'd be better to try and find a species though
 
Mr Gharial said:
On the other hand, some animals are listed without a known species, such as "Pricklenape (unknown species) (Acanthosaura spec.)" held in Köln and Neu-Ulm.
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These are likely murphyi said the staff, just a side note.

I want to ask everyone to please be careful when adding subspecies. I was just informed that someone linked Buffalo Zoo to the giant sable antelope (H. n. variani), others have linked zoos to species like the Japanese giant flying squirrel in the generic category, while they are confirmed subspecies. It's a tricky game for sure :)
 
Wow, this is spectacular news! I have long been using ZTL to look at what is held in Europe and select other regions of the world, and I, like many other North Americans, have wished we had our own version. Now we won't need a new 'ZTL for North America' thread every few years!

I'll be hard at work trying to put together my species lists to update the site. I have 2 very nice collections lined up that I'll hopefully be able to put together full lists for. It helps that I have been keeping track of my signed, not seen, and unsigned species. Many thanks to the team at ZTL for the amazing work you all have done to setup the site and expand it!
 
PossumRoach said:
Hey I already mailed a staff member about it but would this official source from the Indian government be good enough to be added to the reference section?

https://cza.nic.in/page/en/inventory-of-animals-in-zoos
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That's the perfect source. It's freely available and released by the responsible authorities. Please cite it: "-
Annual Inventory of Animals in Indian zoos Year - Year"

But keep in mind what Animal said in case of subspecies which aren't listed there.
 
Just to address a point made by @Kudu21 in a now-locked news thread for San Diego Zoo, regarding the fact jaguar was listed as a former holding.....

Kudu21 said:
She’s still there. I saw her on Tuesday. There are a lot of errors in the San Diego ZTL listings…
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I already posted an explanation for these apparent errors here:

TeaLovingDave said:
As a general heads-up, I've been methodically going through a comprehensive 1969 mammal stocklist for San Diego Zoo which I was fortunate enough to obtain about a decade ago, adding all of the species and subpecies mentioned within to the former holdings for said collection - naturally, however, some of these taxa will be still present now, or have returned to the collection since the 1960s.

As such, if anyone on here ends up updating the present holdings for San Diego Zoo at some point, make sure you double-check the former holdings for any species you add first in case I already added it to the collection, in which case all you need do is add the present-day information and switch the holding to "current" :) the last thing we want to do is add more work for the ZTL admins by making them have to mop up duplicate listings for the same collection!
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Or to put it another way, I'm adding the species to the collection as I know for a fact they were present in 1969 but - given the fact I have only patchy knowledge of the present-day animal collection - it would be misleading to default to adding everything to "current holdings" :p I leave it to those better-acquainted with San Diego Zoo to switch species into that category where relevant.
 
Sicarius said:
I want to ask everyone to please be careful when adding subspecies. I was just informed that someone linked Buffalo Zoo to the giant sable antelope (H. n. variani), others have linked zoos to species like the Japanese giant flying squirrel in the generic category, while they are confirmed subspecies. It's a tricky game for sure :)
Click to expand...

To this end, I thought I'd add (in the nicest way possible!) that some new editors may want to not get ahead of themselves when adding taxa that don't have pages yet. For example, the Western Atlantic subspecies of Harbor Seal does not yet have a page on ZTL and, until this evening, neither did the East Pacific subspecies. Yet, many entries for Harbor Seals have been uploaded to the European subspecies instead, presumably because they're both Atlantic(?). I'd suggest that this is a little counterintuitive, as it will require admins/others to go back and move all these entries once a page for the West Atlantic subspecies is created. It's probably a lot easier all around to just wait until the proper taxa page is created.

Similarly, I've noticed there's been a rush to get bottlenose dolphin entries onto ZTL under nominate truncatus despite it being discussed here on the forum (including just the other day by the VP of Zoological Operations at SeaWorld) that there aren't any purebred nominate truncatus in the United States, they're all either erebennus or hybrids. What's the point of adding all these entries if they only need to be transferred/deleted once a proper page is made for erebennus and/or Tursiops (sensu lato)?

The ZTL admins are doubtlessly working extremely hard to update the site with all these new collections and species/subspecies pages. Perhaps we can have a little more patience on getting stuff added to the database only when the appropriate pages are available? We're waiting this long for US ZTL after all, we can wait a little longer! :)

~Thylo
 
PossumRoach said:
Hey I already mailed a staff member about it but would this official source from the Indian government be good enough to be added to the reference section?

https://cza.nic.in/page/en/inventory-of-animals-in-zoos
Click to expand...
It has been added to the references also, so you can use this code [CZAYB20212022] while citing.
Also note that many zoos have released annual reports after this inventory came out, and those will have even more up to date stock lists (March 2023). They can be found on the same site.
 
Fo
ThylacineAlive said:
To this end, I thought I'd add (in the nicest way possible!) that some new editors may want to not get ahead of themselves when adding taxa that don't have pages yet. For example, the Western Atlantic subspecies of Harbor Seal does not yet have a page on ZTL and, until this evening, neither did the East Pacific subspecies. Yet, many entries for Harbor Seals have been uploaded to the European subspecies instead, presumably because they're both Atlantic(?). I'd suggest that this is a little counterintuitive, as it will require admins/others to go back and move all these entries once a page for the West Atlantic subspecies is created. It's probably a lot easier all around to just wait until the proper taxa page is created.

Similarly, I've noticed there's been a rush to get bottlenose dolphin entries onto ZTL under nominate truncatus despite it being discussed here on the forum (including just the other day by the VP of Zoological Operations at SeaWorld) that there aren't any purebred nominate truncatus in the United States, they're all either erebennus or hybrids. What's the point of adding all these entries if they only need to be transferred/deleted once a proper page is made for erebennus and/or Tursiops (sensu lato)?

The ZTL admins are doubtlessly working extremely hard to update the site with all these new collections and species/subspecies pages. Perhaps we can have a little more patience on getting stuff added to the database only when the appropriate pages are available? We're waiting this long for US ZTL after all, we can wait a little longer! :)

~Thylo
Click to expand...

For the dolphins: The zoos themselves label them as that, so there might be the error.

And yes, there will always be small errors, but we can counter that best in a few weeks, when the flood of posts has died down a bit :)
 
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