ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2013

[Pertinax]

Have to agree entirely with this post!

Tiger Territory really is an excellent exhibit, but I find it hard to believe it cost 3.5 million. I too was sceptical about spending this amount on a current species, relatively common in UK zoos.

I can believe that. London do seem in the business of creating very expensive enclosures, in the past with fancy architecture too, irrespective of whether they are particularly suitable for the inmates(I am not saying the new Tiger area isn't).

'Gorilla Kingdom' cost more than that I believe, yet five years or so on, they still have just about the poorest/smallest/non-functioning group of Gorillas in Europe, certainly for a zoo of this size. Obvously these ongoing troubles are not connected with the enclosure but it shows lavish enclosures and expenditure don't always go hand in hand with successful results.

 

[pipaluk]

I can believe that. London do seem in the business of creating very expensive enclosures, in the past with fancy architecture too, irrespective of whether they are particularly suitable for the inmates(I am not saying the new Tiger area isn't).

'Gorilla Kingdom' cost more than that I believe, yet five years or so on, they still have just about the poorest/smallest/non-functioning group of Gorillas in Europe, certainly for a zoo of this size. Obvously these ongoing troubles are not connected with the enclosure but it shows lavish enclosures and expenditure don't always go hand in hand with successful results.

I've said before that successful breeding of many animals is not necessarily linked to enclosure design, i think compatible pairings and to an extent luck ( something distinctly lacking in gorilla kingdom's case) are probably more important.
Bristol were breeding tigers 40 plus years ago in conditions that would be considered appalling today for example. Whipsnade had the first uk snow leopard breeding and bred other big cats in archaic conditions, whilst the Aspinall parks are still successful with very basic but functional cages.
I hope Tiger Territory is a success on the breeding front, London are due some luck from this investment surely!

 

[stulch]

I can believe that. London do seem in the business of creating very expensive enclosures, in the past with fancy architecture too, irrespective of whether they are particularly suitable for the inmates(I am not saying the new Tiger area isn't).

'Gorilla Kingdom' cost more than that I believe, yet five years or so on, they still have just about the poorest/smallest/non-functioning group of Gorillas in Europe, certainly for a zoo of this size. Obvously these ongoing troubles are not connected with the enclosure but it shows lavish enclosures and expenditure don't always go hand in hand with successful results.

I think it's more to do with what it costs to build in London and in a conservation area.

As they pointed out to a question at last year's ZSL annual meeting they don't build those sort of buildings any more. I wouldn't count anything they've built in the last 10 years as that sort of building.

On a linked point new male gorilla due after Easter sounds like it's going to happen now.

 

[Pertinax]

On a linked point new male gorilla due after Easter sounds like it's going to happen now.

I would rate this particular male's chances of breeding successfully as rather low, but on a side note, do you know why there has been such a long and continuing delay with his transfer from Paignton? Its now nine months since 'Kesho' departed?

 

[Pertinax]

As they pointed out to a question at last year's ZSL annual meeting they don't build those sort of buildings any more. I wouldn't count anything they've built in the last 10 years as that sort of building.

Agreed that the 'Sobells, Clores and Cassons' are a thing of the past, and that Gorilla Kingdom and Tiger Territory are of a different more 'open plan' ilk. I think building costs in London are high as you said, and they have to build in keeping with what they have already. But do the results from such expenditure pay off?- hopefully in the Tigers' case we will be able to say yes.

 

[johnstoni.]

While I agree that there are costs associated with the location of the zoo, remember that they chose to redevelop a listed building - the stork and ostrich house - when it would have been possible to create an exhibit of similar size elsewhere in the zoo (such as on the existing cat terraces/three island pond (although the moat here is listed). I'm not saying it was a bad choice to use the site they chose, I'm saying it wasn't as if they had no other options but that site. So the costs are part of them making such a choice. I haven't seen it in person yet, but if the entire stork and ostrich house underwent a rennovation, including the part used for the African Bird Safari, I would suggest that the zoo may have intended to net a couple of old building upgrades in the process of installing a major new exhibit, as we saw with the penguin pool, which disposed of the old parrot house (I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing). Had they created a tiger exhibit on the site of the original, there would still be a dilapidated listed building and an unsightly sealion viewing gallery still standing, unrefurbished, elsewhere in the zoo, for potentially many years before funds could be found for them.

 

[stulch]

Agreed that the 'Sobells, Clores and Cassons' are a thing of the past, and that Gorilla Kingdom and Tiger Territory are of a different more 'open plan' ilk. I think building costs in London are high as you said, and they have to build in keeping with what they have already. But do the results from such expenditure pay off?- hopefully in the Tigers' case we will be able to say yes.

With what's been already mentioned and the new cafe opening in July, with good weather, I think it could be a bumper year for them.

They always make an effort, as I imagine other zoos do, to have it looking it's best for Easter/summer but I think they've made a special effort this year as they know it's a great opportunity.

 

[IanRRobinson]

With what's been already mentioned and the new cafe opening in July, with good weather, I think it could be a bumper year for them.

They always make an effort, as I imagine other zoos do, to have it looking it's best for Easter/summer but I think they've made a special effort this year as they know it's a great opportunity.

That's actually, with respect, a very major criticism of contemporary London Zoo; it is far too open-plan, with too few undercover viewing opportunities.

Up to 1970, the guidebook actually listed a full page of exhibits that could be seen in bad weather. The Zoo was thus a place where a full day could be spent on a cold, wet day. Only the Mappin Terraces and the North Bank really gave no shelter.

Given that no-one in their right mind visits Whipsnade in really bad weather anyway, a key aim for ZSL finances must be to make London more attractive during the winter, which based on current form, looks as if it will last until late May this year !!

 

[stulch]

That's actually, with respect, a very major criticism of contemporary London Zoo; it is far too open-plan, with too few undercover viewing opportunities.

Up to 1970, the guidebook actually listed a full page of exhibits that could be seen in bad weather. The Zoo was thus a place where a full day could be spent on a cold, wet day. Only the Mappin Terraces and the North Bank really gave no shelter.

Given that no-one in their right mind visits Whipsnade in really bad weather anyway, a key aim for ZSL finances must be to make London more attractive during the winter, which based on current form, looks as if it will last until late May this year !!

I think a lot of people just don't go to zoos in poor weather.

Tiger Terittory has a good number of undercover areas (4 if you count both parts of the old sealion viewing area).

 

[Shirokuma]

I think it's more to do with what it costs to build in London and in a conservation area.

As they pointed out to a question at last year's ZSL annual meeting they don't build those sort of buildings any more. I wouldn't count anything they've built in the last 10 years as that sort of building.

On a linked point new male gorilla due after Easter sounds like it's going to happen now.

Exactly. It really annoys me when people complain about the cost of Gorilla Kingdom and Tiger Territory. They simply aren't extravagant that's just what things cost in London. Don't forget the demolition costs too, it's not like just sticking something up in a field in the countryside.

 

[uszoo]

Exactly. It really annoys me when people complain about the cost of Gorilla Kingdom and Tiger Territory. They simply aren't extravagant that's just what things cost in London. Don't forget the demolition costs too, it's not like just sticking something up in a field in the countryside.

-I totaly agree with this as in the united states we see the same thing. If you are building something at a zoo in Omaha or St. Louis it is half the cost of the exact same thing in New york city. The costs of gorilla kingdom and tiger territory are extremely cheap compared to american zoo exhibits that would be at least triple that amount.

 

[TARZAN]

Exactly. It really annoys me when people complain about the cost of Gorilla Kingdom and Tiger Territory. They simply aren't extravagant that's just what things cost in London. Don't forget the demolition costs too, it's not like just sticking something up in a field in the countryside.

Good point there,and one that might not be so obvious, demolition costs for what was there previously, not something you would think of straight away.

 

[Shirokuma]

I went to the zoo today and had a quick look at Tiger Territory. It's a public holiday and I'm pleased that less than an hour after opening the zoo was pretty busy and the area around the tigers was especially crowded. Slightly annoying for me but great for the zoo.

It's an excellent example of London Zoo moving forward with some creative thinking and good use of space.

It will be much better once the vegetation settles and spring, maybe - one day - even summer comes but I was extremely impressed.

The enclosures are much bigger than I had guessed from following progress outside the site. The indoor area is very well done and the covered shelters are a bonus for rainy days. I loved all the different angles there are.

I like the way the casson paddocks have been incorporated with some interesting viewing angles.

My only criticism, and this isn't actually of Tiger Territory is that inside the casson feels more of an untidy mishmash than ever before. I would love to see it tidied up a bit and given some kind of unity of design. I would give it a South East Asia theme and replace the old 'zoo world' signage with educational panels about the region and it's wildlife.

 

[IanRRobinson]

What is there to see inside or outside the Casson Pavilion? Are the old ex small mammal/ bird enclosures still there? These would be great for the likes of chevreotains, tree shrews or tropical squirrels.

 

[Shirokuma]

What is there to see inside or outside the Casson Pavilion? Are the old ex small mammal/ bird enclosures still there? These would be great for the likes of chevreotains, tree shrews or tropical squirrels.

Anoa have been moved to the old pygmy hippo winter enclosure with an outside paddock and inside the pool has been filled in or covered to make their indoor area.

The door on this side of the building isn't open by the way, the only access being via the opposite side.

Malayan tapir have the camel stalls and paddock. They are now labled 'Asian tapir'. At the moment it is just the male as the female and recently born calf are still in the old enclosure.

So now there is a common South East Asian theme to the large animal enclosures as the bearded pigs are still in their enclosure.

The smaller cages remain and it is these, together with the zoo world educational signs which make it feel slightly incoherent and messy in my view.

 

[IanRRobinson]

Allowing for the fact that the elephant and rhino hospital dens are still there, presumably unused, there might be scope for mixed exhibits on both sides. Binturong might work on the tapir side, with a bit of hot wiring. As an animal described by Raffles ZSL really ought to have this species onsite.

 

[SHAVINGTONZOO]

Allowing for the fact that the elephant and rhino hospital dens are still there, presumably unused, there might be scope for mixed exhibits on both sides. Binturong might work on the tapir side, with a bit of hot wiring. As an animal described by Raffles ZSL really ought to have this species onsite.

EVERY zoo should display Binturong.

They are, after all, the world's most charismatic mammal!

 

[IanRRobinson]

EVERY zoo should display Binturong.

They are, after all, the world's most charismatic mammal!

"Looking rather like a badly made hearthrug" in Gerald Durrell's words. I like them too!!

 

[Paradoxurus]

Shirokuma, you are lucky. I was there yesterday and the interior of the Casson Pavillion was closed to visitors altogether.

Tiger Territory is space well used; the stork and ostrich house has been adapted very well indeed. I like thie historic aspects of RP (personally, I am quite glad that many of them are listed) and Tiger Territory is a perfect demonstration of how an historic building can be rennovated in a way that not only meets all the remits of the modern zoo (animal welfare, education, visitor experience etc.) but preserves the cultural integrity of a listed building. Continental European Zoos have traditionally been much better at achieving this marriage than we have in Britain but this development suggests we are catching up.

That said, I still think that the Casson Pavillion is still falling short. It needs something that is going to use the height of the building. Anoa, and even the Malayan tapir, are too diminutive beneath that towering edifice. With a little ingenuity a very much three dimensional exhibit could have been constructed for orangutan or sun bear (both inside and out).

It is interesting to note that the old dog cages are still attached to the rear of the former sealion tiered seating. And for some reason, I thought the mock rockwork of the old sealion pool was listed but it appears to have been entirely swept away.

 

[IanRRobinson]

Maybe Sumatran Orang-Utans could be kept on the North side of the Casson Pavilion. That side of the building is not on view from the Park and suitable tall, roofed enclosures might be built there.

I believe that the Bearded Pig male has been castrated, so it's not as if that side of the building has a long-term future at the moment. Banteng would be another option; they would necessitate virtually no work done and ZSL hasn't kept them for the thick end of fifty years.

As for the old dog dens; would tropical pheasants be such a bad idea?