I agree with you. What is wrong with more animals supporting these exhibits instead of non animal related gimmicks?
I dislike model dinosaurs in zoos, but this is even worse for me!
ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2014
- Thread starter sooty mangabey
- Start date
I dislike model dinosaurs in zoos, but this is even worse for me!
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
Firstly I am pleased that this area is being revamped for the lions, I was never fond of this exhibit from new and got to look more dank and depressing looking as time progressed. Obviously with this being London it will be costing mega bucks and no doubt similar discussions will take place regarding this new major exhibit as what happened with the new tiger facilities. I agree that after a while these "props" do appear to look tatty after the great costs of installing them, the walkway around the elephant paddock at Twycross is a classic example of this, on the other hand as good as the model is I will be drawing my own opinion of it when I actually get to see it in the flesh, and if it is good as the other major exhibits that have been built at London in recent years I will be well satisfied.
1. I think the dank feel of the current Lion enclosure( and it certainly has one) is due to a combination of the shade cast by the big (preserved) Plane trees, the huge area of the green algae-covered watermoat and the stained concrete walls. I don't know if these trees will be still be in the new enclosure, though if so, as it is supposedly so much larger, their shade effect will hopefully be far less.
2. One might add the Borneo Longhouse at Twycross too, though in that case its more a main exhibit itself rather than a 'prop' for something else. As someone else mentioned, I think the African -themed props around Whipnade's Serengeti Lion exhibit disappeared after a time, but this latest ZSL theming attempt may be on a bigger scale than that was.
3. Agree its still only an artist's model/impression at this stage and we can really only judge the real thing. (For example; the Grey Langur exhibit mentioned here, already seems rather different to the original artist's impression of some weeks' back) I am sure the actual Lion enclosure will be spacious and well-landscaped-its only this ancillary themed area I am dubious about-but it appears that increasingly you can't have one without the other nowadays at London.
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London Zoo are taking part in a test of new wireless technology, by broadcasting live-feeds of their animals on Youtube
BBC News - Meerkats streamed to YouTube using TV white space
BBC News - Meerkats streamed to YouTube using TV white space
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the Isle of Wight zoo tiger and lion exhibits in this debate, they are very similar to this planned exhibit, their lion exhibit actually has a jeep in it, if I remember correctly. I for one like it, its a huge education factor for children. An immersive experience is much more likely to be remember in a positive way by the general public. It may feel gimiky to us but I recon the GP will love it.
The proof will be in the pudding, but ZSL have a bit of a poor track record when comes to maintaining their themed exhibits-next time anyone visits Whipsnade, check out some of the info around the lions-it dates back to 2006!
Don't get me wrong I love my cats, and this part of the zoo desperately needs a refresh! My concern lies with the,seemingly, ongoing loss of diversity at RP in preference to the star species. This area could have had smaller species dotted around LOL to complement the lions and langurs-an opportunity for vultures or pangolins perhaps?
Don't get me wrong I love my cats, and this part of the zoo desperately needs a refresh! My concern lies with the,seemingly, ongoing loss of diversity at RP in preference to the star species. This area could have had smaller species dotted around LOL to complement the lions and langurs-an opportunity for vultures or pangolins perhaps?
Just had a more thorough look at the new lion plans on the ZSL website: the impression given is that the langurs will be in a free-roaming exhibit! Is that wise? Do langurs make a good free-roaming species?
Also never knew that Asian lions were excellent cyclists!
Also never knew that Asian lions were excellent cyclists!
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Just had a more thorough look at the new lion plans on the ZSL website: the impression given is that the langurs will be in a free-roaming exhibit! Is that wise? Do langurs make a good free-roaming species?
Also never knew that Asian lions were excellent cyclists!
I sincerely hope that the intention isn't to have free-ranging langurs, and if it is I think Westminster City Council will stamp on it very quickly indeed. Semnopithecus langurs can be very big indeed - males can weigh over 20 kilos. The prospect of one cavorting in Regent's Park, having traversed the bog standard railings which are the only barrier that the Royal Parks Agency will permit, is not a happy one.
As for your second point: never heard of behavioural enrichment?
'Free-ranging'? The mind boggles. I imagine they'd be out of that area and exploring everywhere else, both inside and outside the Zoo too. I cannot imagine that's the intention.
Communityzoo
Well-Known Member
No, the plans do not show that the langurs will be free-ranging. There a large netted space which, in one of the images, gives the impression that there is either some consideration at this stage to the exhibit being a walk-through enclosure, or for there to be some kind of bridge/tunnel over the public walkway for the monkeys, themed as part of the 'temple'.
Hanuman langurs have been kept in walk-through exhibits at both Apenheul and Hodenhagen (although it seems no longer at Apenheul for reasons I'm not aware of. However, I suspect both exhibits are/were larger than the one at London will be, and artist's impressions offer differ from the final build, so I would imagine there will be a large, cage-style exhibit created in the style of the mangabey enclosure for this species, with perhaps less theming than is suggested in the images, and which isn't walk-through.
As for the bikes in the lion enclosure....I doubt they'll find a way of putting in less robust items like this where there is potential for the lions to harm themselves. Jeeps are one thing, bikes another. It would be particularly grim to see such gimmicks surrounded by hotwire sprays just to keep the lions away from them. I also hope there will be be more high plaforms than the artists suggest, as these are furnishings the lions could actually use as opposed to things they'd injure themselves on trying to investigate.
Hanuman langurs have been kept in walk-through exhibits at both Apenheul and Hodenhagen (although it seems no longer at Apenheul for reasons I'm not aware of. However, I suspect both exhibits are/were larger than the one at London will be, and artist's impressions offer differ from the final build, so I would imagine there will be a large, cage-style exhibit created in the style of the mangabey enclosure for this species, with perhaps less theming than is suggested in the images, and which isn't walk-through.
As for the bikes in the lion enclosure....I doubt they'll find a way of putting in less robust items like this where there is potential for the lions to harm themselves. Jeeps are one thing, bikes another. It would be particularly grim to see such gimmicks surrounded by hotwire sprays just to keep the lions away from them. I also hope there will be be more high plaforms than the artists suggest, as these are furnishings the lions could actually use as opposed to things they'd injure themselves on trying to investigate.
Not sure if Apenheul has dropped this or not- it seems unclear from the recent photos in their Gallery.
I suspect you are right, both on the style of the exhibit and also that it will be a rather smaller/simplified version of the artist impression. As they failed rather miserably to get the Colobus monkeys satisfactorily into a mixed exhibit, I imagine they won't be now planning anything too ground-breaking in this either. But it will be good to see Grey Langur here again, in whatever form the exhibit takes.
Having looked at the pictures and plans (which as we all know will be different in their ultimate implementation), it seems to me that the immersive elements of the 'village' take up very little space and seem to be utilising the path and rear wall of the BUGS building.
Hardly a case of wasting space with 'theme park' attractions and certainly not giving up significant areas that could otherwise be used for animals.
Hardly a case of wasting space with 'theme park' attractions and certainly not giving up significant areas that could otherwise be used for animals.
Frankly, theming like this always misfires.
Zoos have been making exotic cultural theming for decades, and all old examples I know of are bad. Some fall apart from age, some look like kitsch, some look interesting in a kind of way they designers didn't want 'so stupid people in the past believed what exotic countries are?' Zoos in England over the years had tens of examples of ruined temples and the like, there was the time where many zoos had Jungle Book-style ruined temple for monkeys, and all were pulled down.
So, unless the zoo can build ethnographical exhibition on the level of British Museum, better don't try. And even then, people come to zoos to see nature - would they prefer streets and bikes to palms and tropical flowers?
Zoos have been making exotic cultural theming for decades, and all old examples I know of are bad. Some fall apart from age, some look like kitsch, some look interesting in a kind of way they designers didn't want 'so stupid people in the past believed what exotic countries are?' Zoos in England over the years had tens of examples of ruined temples and the like, there was the time where many zoos had Jungle Book-style ruined temple for monkeys, and all were pulled down.
So, unless the zoo can build ethnographical exhibition on the level of British Museum, better don't try. And even then, people come to zoos to see nature - would they prefer streets and bikes to palms and tropical flowers?
Just two points - If the lemur walkthrough goes ahead, would this free up the Roundhouse for one of the groups of monkeys possibly made homeless by the new lion enclosure?
Also, a new kinkajou has arrived, Meet Forrest the kinkajou | Zoological Society of London (ZSL)
Also, a new kinkajou has arrived, Meet Forrest the kinkajou | Zoological Society of London (ZSL)
The Terrace primates will be tempoarily housed off-show at Whipsnade whilst LOL is built. Whether they return is anyone's guess! However, IMO, the actual size and style of the Roundhouse probably wouldnt suit any of the evicted species lifestyles- the ring-tailed lemurs certainly don't look very comfortable in there! Perhaps aye-aye (hopefully
) or koala (fat chance) would be better suited.Where's the kinkajou being housed?
If the LOL is as heavily theme-based as advertised, then none of those Monkeys will be re-appearing in that area again...
IMO they would be better either keeping them at Whipsnade so there are more larger primates for visitors to see, or if not possible, dispersing them to other breeding groups. Perhaps one group will end up in the Roundhouse- it has been home to so many species over the years already.
Surely a better plan would have been to build them new enclosures elsewhere at London, before demolishing their old ones?!