There's a photo in the gallery taken only about four days ago showing two Chapman's at ZSL. Is 'Damara' an inaccuracy perhaps, or are there really some there now?
ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2014
- Thread starter sooty mangabey
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There's a photo in the gallery taken only about four days ago showing two Chapman's at ZSL. Is 'Damara' an inaccuracy perhaps, or are there really some there now?
Communityzoo
Well-Known Member
The inventory lists 2 Chapman's and 2 Damara zebra....I had thought that originally, four Chapman's had been brought in for the opening of 'Into Africa', but soon after the opening there were just 3 for a number of years. There are now recent photos online of four animals, so new individuals must have been brought in from somewhere. Either they have been listed incorrectly or they are in fact two different subspecies. Where did the Blackbrook Damaras end up? Its a shame IMO, to maintain zebra in a non-breeding situation in a sand yard, when ZSL have Whipsnade (I feel similarly about Colchester's zebras, despite the larger space available). A forest browser preferring cover would be better suited to London's enclosure (didn't someone say the bongo use only the covered fraction of their Whipsnade paddock?), or perhaps with some tree protection, the giraffes could venture into this side as well, at very little cost.
As an aside rather to the discussion about Zebras- I don't know if the Bongo at Whipsnade do use the open paddock, but I have only seen them in the little wooded area at the back, and one time I saw them move out of there and head straight to the indoor area as if shunning the open areas. At Howletts and PL they are often invisible because they are lying up behind the sheds.
So many of the Forest dwelling species- both ungulates and primates like Gorillas and Mandrills (and Dudley's chimps it seems),still retain that natural preference for 'cover' in captivity.
I would welcome the bongos back at London ZSL any day!
They are better suited to the city conditions and have historically also done well here. Plus and not unimportant, they would very much suit the okapi - pygmy hippo line-up.
The use of the giraffe yards is OK for the current non-breeding group. Admittedly, here as well … it seems an experienced staff have done far better with breeding giraffe than out in the paddocks at Whipsnade.
They are better suited to the city conditions and have historically also done well here. Plus and not unimportant, they would very much suit the okapi - pygmy hippo line-up.
The use of the giraffe yards is OK for the current non-breeding group. Admittedly, here as well … it seems an experienced staff have done far better with breeding giraffe than out in the paddocks at Whipsnade.
They went to Axe Valley
I would also support the Bongo returning to London. It was the original plan I think but somehow just got dropped. I don't think they make a very good display at Whipsnade and are no doubt lost to visitors among all the other hoofed animals. They would be shown off to better advantage in London. As you said they would also complement the other forest species- Okapi and Pygmy Hippo. And give London an antelope species too.
The four zebra looked as though they were all the same to me when I was there on Tuesday and were labelled as Chapman's. The brown stripes between the main stripes were quite heavy, though, so when the keeper came to feed them, I asked and he said they were all Chapman's.
Gorilla Kingdom was having a bit of a revamp -- not entirely clear as to what the end result will be but the outside climbing log structures (seldom used) seemed to be being replaced and looked like some barriers to provide a gap between people and the viewing windows to the outdoor area.
If this is what I think it is, it's an attempt to provide the gorillas, Kumbuka in particular, some privacy away from the visitors screaming/shouting and banging on the glass. It will be interesting to see the end result.
Obviously I don't blame Kumbuka reacting the way he does. Blame lies solely with the ****** who fragrantly disregard the signage in front of them telling them not to aggravate the group, and who spoil it for the considerate majority. I believe plans are also in place to amend how visitors enter/exit Gorilla Kingdom.
I've also noticed this occurring at the lions, with people kicking the partition gates in an attempt to wake the cats up.
Certainly with the new permanent barriers rather than the moveable tape barrier poles there will be a much narrower channel which I suspect would cause a bottleneck at peak times with the number of buggies and family groups that pass thru. So entry/exit rethink is probably sensible.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
I do try not to sneer at some zoo visitors, but I still twitch at the memory of some of the dorks I dealt with at London in my time there as a volunteer (docent) some twenty years ago. Parents encouraging children to run, loud yelling in any obvious echo chambers such as the tunnels or the Aquarium, climbing on the wire of ninety year old aviaries - all spring to mind. But I am afraid that baiting the great apes was the defining point where a twerp became an anti-social *****.
Keepers on the beat with powers of ejection seems to be the only real way of dealing with human rubbish like that.
Keepers on the beat with powers of ejection seems to be the only real way of dealing with human rubbish like that.
Haven't London already put a barrier along that viewing area- or is it only in the dayroom section?
A number of Zoos that have used the 'close approach' glass window viewing design in modern exhibits for Gorillas have later found they have had to make modifications, as the perceived aim of close-up viewing in reality means visitors are too close and so within the comfort zone of the Apes. Coloured glass, camouflaged netting and barriers have all been used as counters to this problem.
IMO adding extra barriers is the most effective method, as they don't interfere with or limit the area of viewing and give more space between people and the apes.
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Certainly I've noticed an increase in anti-social behaviour at both ZSL sites in my numerous visits over the last 18 monthes. The attitude tends to be "I've paid my money, I'll do what I want." There's been one physical attack upon keeping staff that I'm aware of when they've tried to intervene.
An increasingly worrying trend.Whether it's the same at other sites I don't know.
Glad to know I’m not the only one to have noticed a downwards trend in visitor behaviour. There’s much more pushing, shoving and squealing than there used to be. When I was there last week a penguin had swum underneath the underwater ‘bubble’ viewing window and a child was actually stamping on it and the parents never said a word. Can only be grateful there was thick glass, I dread to think what that child might do if it came across a grounded wild bird 
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Glad to know I’m not the only one to have noticed a downwards trend in visitor behaviour. There’s much more pushing, shoving and squealing than there used to be. When I was there last week a penguin had swum underneath the underwater ‘bubble’ viewing window and a child was actually stamping on it and the parents never said a word. Can only be grateful there was thick glass, I dread to think what that child might do if it came across a grounded wild bird
Children chasing after pigeons have always been one of my hates. I would always tell them to stop doing it, even if the parents were there and oblivious.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
While I'm the first to get grumpy about bad visitor behaviour, I have to say that my experience at London over the last few years is very different to that cited above: I go to the zoo about 6 times a year, and really can't remember the last time I saw some genuinely obnoxious behaviour - although I did recently see someone handing a leaf to a mangabey. Indeed, the attitude towards the gorillas in particular seems a great deal more respectful than at some zoos, with, in my experience, most visitors allowing them the peace and quiet they like. I may have been lucky; alternatively, it is possible that one piece of bad behaviour can stick in the mind (I always think of Stuttgart as having awful visitors, as I once saw a small boy spitting at barbary sheep there - but I am sure this was an isolated incident).
Gorilla Kingdom
See the attached pictures from Saturday (also they now have 'grass' in front of the shop).
See the attached pictures from Saturday (also they now have 'grass' in front of the shop).
Attachments
Certainly looks more of an "immersive" experience as you walk around the interior! Is the glass inside now completely covered by the hessian-type material, or haven't they finished?
Definitely an improvement and good for the gorillas!
No doubt some will complain that they "can't see the munkees"
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Gorilla Kingdom
I can appreciate why this has been done but am glad that it's happened since my visit earlier in the year when I was able to get a good look at Kumbuka. It's a shame that the actions of a few spoil things for those who are able to observe animals quietly and with respect.
When Kumbuka was at Paignton he was kept off show or outside as he didn't appear to enjoy close contact with loud visitors. But as ZSL has found out, he reacts to people outside too, although most of his missiles landed in the moat at Paignton. I did hope that, with females to occupy him, his attention would be drawn away from visitors, but they are obviously just too close here.
I can appreciate why this has been done but am glad that it's happened since my visit earlier in the year when I was able to get a good look at Kumbuka. It's a shame that the actions of a few spoil things for those who are able to observe animals quietly and with respect.
When Kumbuka was at Paignton he was kept off show or outside as he didn't appear to enjoy close contact with loud visitors. But as ZSL has found out, he reacts to people outside too, although most of his missiles landed in the moat at Paignton. I did hope that, with females to occupy him, his attention would be drawn away from visitors, but they are obviously just too close here.