ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2015

[Panthera1981]

This debate will no doubt run and run. I could write an essay on this subject but I've found, out of the many zoo's I've visited, and I'm sure others will testify, one of London's main enemies is nostalgia. Maybe they wish to look through rose-tinted glasses, but people STILL ask "where are the elephants/rhinos/bears?" Even it's most vehement champion would agree you simply can't keep certain megafauna in a zoo the size of London.

And hamstrung by it's location certainly, but surely its not impossible for ZSL to acquire the extra land if its justifiable?

 

[Ned]

The zoo will soon receive 1 male Hanuman langur from Sosto zoo and 2 females from Hodenhagen. These will form a new breeding group to be housed in the new lion exhibit.

You could almost miss this wonderful bit of news amongst all the negativity.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

You could almost miss this wonderful bit of news amongst all the negativity.

It is indeed a nice bit of news - it is just a shame the zoo went out of their pure "priam" langurs a few years ago only to bring back species-hybrid individuals now......

 

[Lemurs]

I went on Sunday. I was fairly impressed, I think it's improved since I last went 2 years ago.

I'm happy the gibbons have been moved on from their lacklustre enclosure. The pygmy hippos have a nice new area. The spider walk-through was a bit 'meh', I expected more. It's the size of a small/personal office room and you walk in a quick circle, I guess I was expecting too much.

Regarding education, yes it is poor. I accidentally caught part of the lemur talk and rather then discussing how endangered they are, they kept referring to that awful film. Someone (a paid keeper) also said ring-tails are fully mature at 1 year old.

No aye-ayes for me but I have two visits to Tsimbazaza Zoo in Antananarivo soon.

 

[Crowthorne]

Regarding education, yes it is poor. I accidentally caught part of the lemur talk and rather then discussing how endangered they are, they kept referring to that awful film. Someone (a paid keeper) also said ring-tails are fully mature at 1 year old.

Was the talk held in the lemur-walkthrough or in the tented display area? Was there a few weeks ago and went to one of the animal displays in the tent, and like you, thought the education was poor. Never a good sign when silly/funny music is played as a kind of 'theme tune' to an animal.

 

[Communityzoo]

It is indeed a nice bit of news - it is just a shame the zoo went out of their pure "priam" langurs a few years ago only to bring back species-hybrid individuals now......

Yes, it's a strange thing - while it is always interesting to see species not represented elsewhere in the UK, by using a generic yet still relatively hard-to-source animal as, well, theming, in this instance, it does rather lock them into trying to maintain grey langurs no matter what for the lifetime of the lion exhibit. I wonder if they will acquire further individuals and attempt to integrate a larger mixed group, or if 1.2 is what they will open with. If there is an initial 'flourish' before the group starts to dwindle in a decade or so, as was the case with the previous group, it will be interesting to see what ZSL do, especially given the genetic status of these langurs - after a point the expense of bringing in more of them may be hard to justifty for a conservation charity. Hopefully they'll do well, and their presence will be a meaningful teaching tool about lion conservation.

 

[Lemurs]

Was the talk held in the lemur-walkthrough or in the tented display area? Was there a few weeks ago and went to one of the animal displays in the tent, and like you, thought the education was poor. Never a good sign when silly/funny music is played as a kind of 'theme tune' to an animal.

Lemur walk-through, I was walking past.

 

[oflory]

Regarding education, yes it is poor. I accidentally caught part of the lemur talk and rather then discussing how endangered they are, they kept referring to that awful film. Someone (a paid keeper) also said ring-tails are fully mature at 1 year old.

I still regret not bringing up the poem in the children zoo that references 'koala bears' at the AGM last year. You'd have thought as a preeminent zoological scientific society, they should (and could) be better at this!

 

[Pertinax]

it does rather lock them into trying to maintain grey langurs no matter what for the lifetime of the lion exhibit.

If there is an initial 'flourish' before the group starts to dwindle in a decade or so, as was the case with the previous group, it will be interesting to see what ZSL do,

Don't count on it...

I think while the Lions will obviously be a permanent feature, the back-up cast e.g. Langurs may well have a shorter shelf life- depending on how successful they are. Last time they got up to about ten before they started to dwindle. Genetics aside, its an interesting species and makes a great display, so I hope they stay a long time, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it if they are not overly successful.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Considering the fact that due to taxonomic work done into Semnopithecus, these generic langurs are not merely subspecies-level hybrids, but species-hybrids, our best hope is that they display some level of hybrid vigour lacked by the previous group.

 

[Regent]

Considering the fact that due to taxonomic work done into Semnopithecus, these generic langurs are not merely subspecies-level hybrids, but species-hybrids, our best hope is that they display some level of hybrid vigour lacked by the previous group.

I wish I was clever enough to understand what this statement means, I haven't got a clue.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I wish I was clever enough to understand what this statement means, I haven't got a clue.

Semnopithecus is the genus within which the Grey Langur is placed. Previously, it was believed that there was only one species - Semnopithecus entellus - with a number of subspecies. As a result, the European population was managed at a species-level with most individuals in captivity being of no known subspecies - some of these may have been pure individuals of one or more subspecies, but with unknown origins, and many will have been introgressive hybrids between subspecies.

One of the few collections which did not hold generic individuals was ZSL London Zoo - this collection held Tufted Gray Langur (Semnopithecus entellus priam), and continued to do so until 5 years ago. Within a year or two the remaining collections holding pure individuals went out of the taxon, leaving only the generic population.

However, by this point in time the scenario had got more complicated - two taxa which had previously been classed within Trachypithecus - the Purple-faced Langur and Nilgiri Langur - were both merged into Semnopithecus. Furthermore, the vast majority of subspecies within Semnopithecus entellus had been granted full species status in 2001.

As such, rather than the remaining "grey langur" population being representative of one species, and merely not being determined down to subspecific level, it is now apparent that the individuals remaining in Europe represent a hybrid swarm of anywhere up to seven species:

Nepal (Semnopithecus schistaceus)
Kashmir (Semnopithecus ajax)
Tarai (Semnopithecus hector)
Northern Plains (Semnopithecus entellus)
Black-footed (Semnopithecus hypoleucos)
Southern Plains (Semnopithecus dussumieri)
Tufted (Semnopithecus priam)

As it is possible that the eventual faltering of the Tufted population in Europe - along with other pure species - was due to a lack of genetic variety and inbreeding within the population, my previous statement was intended to reflect the fact that as the individuals which are soon to arrive at ZSL London Zoo represent hybrid forms - referred to as Semnopithecus entellus (sensu lato) - and are therefore somewhat more varied genetically, it is possible that they will prove of more hardy stock.

There is a single Semnopithecus individual in Europe which is not part of this hybrid swarm - an ageing Nilgiri Langur (Semnopithecus johnii) - but as this taxon has only recently been recognised as congeneric with the Grey Langur, it is not relevant to the matter at hand.

 

[Regent]

Just seen a comment from "Lemurs" about the talk given by one of the presenters in the lemur walk through. The talk lasts for about 15 minutes and covers the dangers that the lemurs are facing. Yes, they do make a small reference to that film BUT only to say that the main character should have be a female. It's a pity that out of the whole informative talk, the only piece you mention is "that film"

 

[Lemurs]

Yes I must have dreamt the part when they spoke about the films being 'amazing', then walked away before they discussed lemurs being the world's most endangered mammals.

Anyway, it's what people probably want to hear (unfortunately) and mentioning 'that film' can draw people in. Thankfully I've never had to rely on such tactics when discussing lemurs.

 

[oflory]

Yes I must have dreamt the part when they spoke about the films being 'amazing', then walked away before they discussed lemurs being the world's most endangered mammals.

To be fair... "Of all the world's animals living on the verge of extinction, Madagascar's lemurs are teetering closest to the brink. A new assessment of these primates reveals they are probably the most endangered group of vertebrates on Earth, beating out all other mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds and bony fish for the dismal distinction."

Lemurs Named World's Most Endangered Mammals | Madagascar Animals

 

[Lemurs]

To be fair... "Of all the world's animals living on the verge of extinction, Madagascar's lemurs are teetering closest to the brink. A new assessment of these primates reveals they are probably the most endangered group of vertebrates on Earth, beating out all other mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds and bony fish for the dismal distinction."

Lemurs Named World's Most Endangered Mammals | Madagascar Animals

I said that London Zoo neglected to mention this. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

[Regent]

I said that London Zoo neglected to mention this. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I am sure that during the talk given by a London Zoo presenter they stress that lemurs are in danger of extinction and I can only suggest that you missed this part of the 15 minute talk

 

[Pertinax]

I am sure that during the talk given by a London Zoo presenter they stress that lemurs are in danger of extinction and I can only suggest that you missed this part of the 15 minute talk

They must do. It is the key factor in virtually all Zoo talks given about unusual or endangered animals. I can't believe they didn't include it.

 

[Lemurs]

I agreed with other posters that education is somewhat lacking, and pointed out that a (paid) keeper was wrong about when adults are mature. Why is everything on this forum turned into a drama? I even said I was impressed by the zoo.

 

[Regent]

I agreed with other posters that education is somewhat lacking, and pointed out that a (paid) keeper was wrong about when adults are mature. Why is everything on this forum turned into a drama? I even said I was impressed by the zoo.

I apologise if you feel that everything on this forum is turned into a drama but I can only speak from my own experience of listening to the talk about lemurs. As a Patron, I often chat to the keepers in the lemur enclosure, whose priority is the welfare of the lemurs plus sharing their knowledge with visitors. I am very surprised at the comment from ( a paid keeper) that lemurs mature at 1year old. I was told 2 years old and I was also told that many baby lemurs do not reach 1 year old. Is there a possibility that you may have mis heard the comment?
As for education, what exactly are you looking for. During the summer season there are 15 different talks from presenters and you must realise that their audience is not always well informed animal lovers but some visitors are just there for a day out and many of them have young children. Very, very difficult to find that happy medium in a 15 minute talk.