I think you've hot the nail on the head there - both could be repurposed but it would be costly.
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ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2022
- Thread starter Red Footed Tortoise
- Start date
Quite possibly but I do think it is important to recognose that it has been bad luck in the cases of male deaths.
Although Bobby’s death was sad, especially given he was a wild born founder, there were rumours on here about his infertility. He was an exceptionally small male and had difficulty controlling the females in his harem, resulting in an unsettled troop. His days at London were numbered regardless.
Yeboah’s death was a double tragedy as it sealed the fate of his unborn offspring, who the zoo decided to introduce to the new silverback - a death that was all the more pointless when this male was revealed to be sterile.
The greatest loss has been the death of Kumbuka, who successfully bred with two of the females and was an impressive leader, commanding their respect. We all hoped he would live a long life and bring stability to the troop.
I’m glad the zoo had the commonsense not to endanger his offspring with the introduction of a new silverback while they were juveniles, but now they’re adolescents, they’re at a crossroads where this will be possible by Gernot leaving and Alika remaining if they so desire.
Rajang-GOAT
Well-Known Member
Would potentially breeding Giraffes through A.I be an option in the future or does A.I not really happen with giraffe?
It’s only been carried out successfully in a handful of cases (a birth in 2013 was reported as the first in Canada and only the second in the world).
In 2001, Auckland Zoo collected semen from their Rothschild’s bull for AI in Australia, but the sperm didn’t freeze/thaw well and it was ultimately unsuccessful.
The bad luck and problems with gorilla males goes back even further, starting after the original breeding male Kumba(1) was returned to Chessington Zoo who owned him. ZSL then had the following males in succession;
Jomie-came from Howletts, but owned(?) by London as his mother was theirs. Died after 2 years from Hepatitis B.
then replaced by;
Jeremiah- came from Bristol with female Diana when their old ape house closed. Totally unsuitable male who never bred, moved to Belfast where he later died.
then replaced by;
Jock. From Zoo La Palmyre. Volatile male who was aggressive to two out of the three females. Exchanged with Bristol Zoo for;
Bobby- and so it went on.....
Bobby was definately stunted, probably from his early background in the Italian circus Medrano. That may have contributed to his comparatively early death at age 25 from heart failure.
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Jock appears to be a success at Bristol?
Jock has indeed sired offspring to three different females at Bristol Zoo.
Looking back on reports, I see when Jock joined the London Zoo troop, there were issues caused by the females being without a silverback - during which time Zaire established herself as the alpha and began bullying one of the other females. There were four females and with some strong personalities in the troop, Jock perhaps felt the need to exert his dominance and went a little too far; the opposite of Bobby, who didn’t exert his authority enough.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
@Zoofan15 I don’t think the London Gorillas of the early 2000’s are to blame. While being introduced to the Gorillas at Bristol Zoo Jock bit off one of Salome’s fingers. As a result Jock was given sedatives for the rest of the introductions. After about a year Jock mellowed into the kind,gentle and patient Silverback he is today. Jock is such a great leader that in 2008 he became an adoptive Dad, to a young Gorilla called Kera who arrived from Stuttgart.
It could have been a range of factors. When apes are scared or threatened, they can react aggressively. Combine that with his personality and inexperience as a silverback and it doesn’t make for a good mix.
Jock was 18 when he arrived at London Zoo, which is admittedly older than the blackbacks you usually see the aggression from due to their inexperience.
There are of course exceptions. They most remarkable male I’ve known is Motoba, who from the age of seven bred with four females at Melbourne - two of which had severe social issues and weren’t tolerated by other males.
Jock was a pretty aggressive male when he arrived. At La Palmyre he hadn't been kept with females which never helps either for forming a new social group. London weren't really used to this behaviour with previous males. I can't remember if Diana had already died but it was the two old females, Messy & Minouche that had come from Dvur Kralove that he proved most incompatible with, or at least one of them. He was able to live just as a pair with Zaire however. But ZSL wanted a group of course so they sought to exchange him.
When Jock moved to Bristol in the exchange for Bobby, he was still very aggressive and bit female Salome very badly on her arm. As Hedgehog mentioned, they put him on sedatives after that for further introductions. But as silverbacks do, he mellowed with age. The plus side was they had a breeding male which Bongo/Bobby was unlikely to ever be. Again, London were the ones that lost out in the exchange there.
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The key to that was his young age and proper socialisation at Jersey. G -Anne and Julia were not intimidated by a boisterous youngster. He probably play-wrestled with them and mated them in the process. That relationship is the best chance of getting a poorly socialised female to breed e.g. Kera/Komale at Bristol more recently.
To return to London's gorilla woes, that makes a total of 7 different males they have had since the early 1980's. Nor was the zoo culpable in most of these cases, where sheer bad luck -for various different reasons- was involved( i.e. Jomie, Jock, Yeboah, Kesho & Kumbuka). Only in the cases of Jeremiah and Bobby do I think the zoo made very bad choices in accepting these unsuitable males- ironically both of them from Bristol.
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Yes he is. It took time for him to settle down but he's a model and tolerant group leader nowadays.
Motoba certainly knew what he was doing. This article (which makes for an interesting read on Melbourne’s gorillas) notes how upon his arrival, at the age of six, he grabbed 35 year old Betsy and mated with her; while the sterile silverback, Buluman, gave no reaction.
https://education.australiascience.tv/cosmos-magazine-gorillas-in-our-midst/
He was 16 years old when he sired infants to Yuska, G-Anne and Julia, but had lived for several years at Melbourne and wouldn’t have been seen as a threat to them.
It's not needed in Europe and hasn't been that successful when tried elsewhere.
I think you are right and although I am not interested in throwing blame around, I do think the only foolish decision led to the death of Yeboah's offspring; ut was a forseeable risk which was not worth taking. I didn't realise Jock was so aggressive; I only ever saw him sitting around or sleeping.
I don't also believe London would have the space to have a breeding herd of giraffes; even a small one.
Size wise, they could accomodate a single pair and their offspring, prior to its departure. Any exhibit which doesn’t have the capacity to accomodate this isn’t suitable for giraffe.
A pair of females works just as well though and serves the needs of the region (not every giraffe can breed). Many city zoos have gone this route (holding non breeding giraffes) in recent years - including Taronga, who hold a non breeding herd after breeding dozens of calves throughout the 20th century.
Whilst it would be cramped by today's standards, London Zoo's Giraffe House held a successful breeding herd of girafffes for many years. During the 1970s and 1980s there were often seven or eight giraffes living there.
True.
Animal welfare and husbandry clearly have improved significantly.
Just one wonders how come giraffe did so well under sub par conditions. I think that question is rather valid here.